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Xfire Debate Club 4th Meeting: Censorship in Video Games
April 26th, 2007 (Open Debate Transcript)

The following is the chat log from the 4/26 debate.

Comments here were made by Xfire users in response to the Main Floor Debate Room.

It is un-edited except for a few “***’s” and most of the good information starts after some of the initial excitement dies down.

[Xfire] SDaria:

*****FIRST QUESTION *****

Can you recall the moment or event or game that caused you to become passionate about this issue? How did this moment tie in to your previous background and lead you to become involved?"

{SBOD}s ninja: anybody can go to google and type in porn and get porn hell i used to do it as a kid

[ZiiP]Lazzars: if parents actially took an intrest in their children and drew a line for whats acceptable and whats not then thre would be no debate

Lunarbunny: um...good question

Elric: yeah, porn is very accesible, and no one says it should be banned "OMFG let's ban teh playboy"

Skeeb: Hot coffee

Pause: First moment? I'd say Hot coffee

#XperT ' Smoreo.: hey all

-|HR|-Mugzzzy: just because something is easy to get doesn't mean we should make it easier or not strive to make it more difficult to access

Pause: HAHA anyone else?

Steel Bear: I always find it humours when 10 yr old kids come on the microphone on xbox live.. parents later complain to xbox that little timmy has been exposed to all this junk.. read the terms of use... it's 13+ or somthing like that... this kind of stuff happens all the time with parents.. they just don't quite grasp the concept that little timmy isn't meant to be playing halo 2 on xbox live..

Atomic|√êdí³: if you want to play a porn game, you should be able to, you have the rights of Life Liberty and Property

{SBOD}s ninja: ...first moment

Skull9490|ups|: hot coffee

St(+)rck: Probably GTS:SA and the whole Hot Coffee

{SBOD}s ninja: ..ummm

{CIA}Crimson_Might: nudity is very acceptable in other contrys and usa hasnt caught up

PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: yeah the event for me was the first time i got suspended from school for saying somethign somebody else didn't like

{SBOD}s ninja: ......

Manny: Hmmm good question, i would say GTA.

Project X: hot coffe

§ TexanMan §: gta

!Ch3m!cal !* 卐*!: lol

{SBOD}s ninja: dont realy remember

insertnamehereizzel: I agree with Skull, don't put porn in video games. Thats what internet is for. Leave it out of games

Skull9490|ups|: GTA SA

Skull9490|ups|: def

Neebs: The event that made me passionate? The pure attacks from uneducated government people.

!Ch3m!cal !* 卐*!: wow everyone slow down

Chocobo Shogun: gta

Seraph: Giants, Citizen Kabuto

Katana: I REMEMBER.....it was when I first played Team Fortress Classic and saw the amount of gore in it

Pause: Well, GTA wasn't really the first

otakuman24: I have to agree that Hot Coffee was the first moment where I thought to myself, "HOLY COW this is going to be big!"

Lunarbunny: I think the point where I was barred from buying an M-rated game and had to get my parents

AdDiCt: doom

Cyron_HOTO: if it gets censored it will get cracked anyway and then you can have your sexy polygons

Shattered Moon: Hot coffee really pissed me off in the first place, not the fact that it was in there, but the fact that so many people go so upset over it

AdDiCt: Doom 1

{JAF}Gen Renton: no games should be forced censored by the fcc

§ TexanMan §: they need better protection

Pause: Well i wouldn't say that Gen

Invader_Akira: People can't seem grasp the point that the people that killed people after playing a game have mostly likely had mental problems

Shattered Moon: Like thereis a HUGE difference betweetn 17 and 18 anyway.

Lunarbunny: the whole thing is that THEY believed I was mature enough to play these games

Pause: I think they shouldn't get censored passed the point of stupidity

otakuman24: But the real moment that it really started for me was Columbine and when I first heard of Doom being blamed

The_Musician: games should be censored on their ratings

{JAF}Gen Renton: Look at halo for example on pc

Skeeb: I didn't even think there was legislation before hot coffee

{SBOD}s ninja: i say that too who ever wants to play pornoguy can do it online but violence is meant for the console

Dendei: Well, earliest I can remember myself, it was during the times of Mortal Kombat that things started to get heavy. Personally I thought it was a bit much at the time, but those events have since laid the foundation for the rating system we use today.

{CIA}Crimson_Might: but nudity hasnt really got my panties in a twist... violence is all over... what would Doom 3 be like eh?

Shattered Moon: What things has a 18 year old seen that a 17 year old hasnt?

{JAF}Gen Renton: u can turn the blood on or off right?

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Censorship is everywhere and in almost everything... it puts a limit between what can be done in a politicly correct way and what can NOT be done

Katana: Mortal K is a good one

Peach: but we arent just talking about the USA people open ur minds

Pause: like if they add those black bars over body parts, that'd just be dumb

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: yet again

Dark Chili: also, people now f*** at liek 14 yet pr0n is only for 18 - 21 up in some places

{JAF}Gen Renton: on the computer the player can choose to censor out the blood and gore

Skull9490|ups|: 17+ and 18+ arent exactly gonna affect ppl much

Pause: Its hard to put the blame on anyone in these cases however

Skeeb: I can honestly say, i see worse in my high school, than i can in games. That'll freak me out anyway >.>

Steel Bear: people also don't seem to grasp that ppl who go on shooting sprees have most likely been tormented by others for the way they dress/what they do after school/who they hang out with/ect.. pin pointing blame on video games is the most arogance i've seen in a long while

[ZiiP]Lazzars: the idea of an age rating is arbetrary, it shouldn't be down to that as most people say that what does an 18 year old know that a 17 year old doesn't

.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: The ability to turn blood on or of should be included in all games that included violence

Dark Chili: damn Japan's age of concent is 13, lets all move to Japan

Elric: SNES version is the best, except for the lack of blood, I see Kombat, but where's the "Mortal"?

{JAF}Gen Renton: and no one complanes about that

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: You need Censorship to prevent 8 years old kids to start doing stuff that you wouldnt see the kid doing until he's 15~16 at leat

Pause: The person with the most fault is the parent

§ TexanMan §: cs just give kids the wrong idea about shooting peopple

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: *least

Skeeb: no

Nodgene: The Americans kicked this issue off, I think they're the only ones mad enough to censor games, and that their presidential candidates to blame games for violence :|

otakuman24: Can we PLEASE keep the swearing to a STRICT minimum please? I want to be able to have a civil and respectable chat discussion and debate here

Neebs: Not only when the attacks on gaming started...but when I watched V for Vendetta. That movie changed my political standings....I question every law passed now....

Skull9490|ups|: the main problem with censorship is the PARENTS

Shattered Moon: Except for China

Pause: At some point you cannot enforce censorship for children

Shattered Moon: ya know

Katana: otaku's right

Lunarbunny: I started playing Unreal Tournament GOTYE at 12. I haven't assaulted or killed anybody in the 7 years I've been living since then

{ONC}Mordakaida: What is the differnce then Mortal Combat video Games and Power Rangers? Both show violence but only the games are trying to get censored.. Is very weird to me.

Katana: russia: No

Shattered Moon: Restricting the time on WoW

§ TexanMan §: Most parents ignore the issue of m rated games

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: lol

insertnamehereizzel: Censoring games won't stop the explicit content. I'm pretty sure someone could find a way around it through moding or something similar.

AdDiCt: seriously tho, kids will still get and/or play these games anyway... might as welll make it the parents duty to teach them about the real world

Katana: Lunar: It's always a probability thing

Shattered Moon: Oh

Pause: you'll just have to do your job as a parent

Dendei: Agreed Otakuman24

Seraph: Mortal Kombat didn't have morals

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: it's not parent's fault

Skull9490|ups|: the first video game ive played and beaten was resident evil

Skull9490|ups|: i was 5

russia545: wait so you cant talk on the main floor chat window?

Katana: NO

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: parent's can't see what their childrens are up to 24/7

Shattered Moon: And also, there was a little fiasco with people linking Vtech to CSS.

Pause: Yea thats one thing i don't find a point in

§ TexanMan §: some parents are irressponsable

{JAF}Gen Renton: There is always going to be a way to uncensor the games

Steel Bear: people pay good money to play WoW... restricting that would just make people angry... there's parental controls there which can be set, too

AdDiCt: and i agree on mortal kombat too

russia545: ok

Invader_Akira: How is it not the parents fault?

stinky42: what the heck, Yee's a child psychologist?

Shattered Moon: What kind of conclusions come from that?

Pause: the fact that Parents don't get involved with what their children are playing

§ TexanMan §: yes

TDF-ACE: yo

Not a Pie: Why does first shooter video game with blood are censored, everybody has already seen blood and violence? that's our world. We can't do anything about it.

Pause: and then blame it on others

{JAF}Gen Renton: what the hell is the point trying to censor them

[Xfire]TwiceUzi: No, the main chat floor is for the guest panel to debate.

Lunarbunny: No, they can't see it 24/7

PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: when i was 5 the NES had just come out, and people said mario was too violent

Project X: i beleive that parents should take the time and read whats in the game and the game shoudl have a feture that blocks out any questoinble images

Elric: I played RE when I was 8, and I'm not shooting people or anything xD

Lunarbunny: but if they get invovled

russia545: No I think

DaSniper: I think the censorship of video games has been around since Mario. References to Mario using Mushrooms to gain power to being related to Drugs, all the way to GTA Hot Coffee incident.

Skull9490|ups|: in fact

russia545: that the parents

Dendei: Personally I think the events following Mortal Kombat were handled rather correctly compared to today

.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: yes the fault does fall on the parents

Kerotan: i don't think you need censorship to regulate games, its a mater of trust between the store and the consumer, and other parents

§ TexanMan §: parents need to know what their kids are playing

Lunarbunny: If they get involved they will know

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: most parents of the generation BEFORE the Nintendo

Pause: Kerotan: Agreed

Skull9490|ups|: im 12 and some guy at game stop let me buy GTA:VCS for psp

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: 98% of them

Travis: imo if your gonna censore video games your gonna have to do it about movies to.. and there not gonna

russia545: should telll their kids that a video game is a video game and that in society itself one must follow the rules

insertnamehereizzel: i agree texasman

Peach: parents need to get involved in order to stop this not the government

[ZiiP]Lazzars: its all one big moral panic anyway, there is no way of telling if the game affects the kid or not

{JAF}Gen Renton: they don't pay attention

Pause: However, it'll have to be just like movies, you don't see every movie being a violent pornfest

{ONC}Mordakaida: the first game I ever played was Final Fantasy for the orgional Nintindo system. turn based violence.... Parents now days are to busy to tell their kid no they can't play that game.

PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: the REAL matter is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, you can't blame a game for ANYTHING people do

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: don't know anything about which games are for kids or what so

Neebs: I first used a computer when I two, and I played Pajama Sam and Super Mario World. I've moved up to HL2...Battlefield Halo...Iv'e not killed anything.

Pause: video games are still fine

[PF] Ertle: if your parents cant take the time to learn to look in your PC for porn or bad games then they should be more responsible

[Xfire] SDaria: *****NEXT QUESTION*****

Should the U.S. Congress be regulating video game sales in the United States? If not Congress, than who?

Katana: How can we help parents understand their need to get involved?

[Xfire]TwiceUzi: Issues of ultimate responsibility aside, do you think that video games do lead to gamers becoming desensitized to violence?

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Parents that are under 35

Lunarbunny: NO

Shattered Moon: No

.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: yet people keep sueing the deveopers and the sellers like EB and its not thier fault if the parents give consent to buy M rated games

{JAF}Gen Renton: no one should blame the games for the persons actions

Jester: definently not

§ TexanMan §: parents need to look up WHY the game is rated for wat it is

{JAF}Gen Renton: its not right

Peach: The parents need to be doing the work not the goverment

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: know a lot more about games

Shattered Moon: The parents should be regulating sale.

insertnamehereizzel: Parents need to know what their kids are playing!!!

Skull9490|ups|: all parents do is have a huge ego and dont take responsibility and blame their childs behaviors on VIDEOGAMES

Lunarbunny: The sellers

otakuman24: Congress should not regular sales. That would be categorizing video games as obscene

AdDiCt: NO\\\\

Steel Bear: parents are not stupid.. they just havn't been informed/are not up to date in the gaming industry.. whcih is understandable, they have alot of other stuff on their plate, and gaming probably doesn't seem like a big issue to them

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: and know that they won't let their 8 years old kid play Mortal Kombat

Shattered Moon: Parents need to grow up and do their jobs

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: or Resident Evil

§ TexanMan §: yes

Dark Chili: my friends brother is 6 years old and he went into a gamestop and got a copy of Doom 3 all by himself no questions asked... how about the incompetant employees that sell this s***

Project X: no the parents should most of the time their buying it

St(+)rck: No way should congress govern sales of video games.

St(+)rck: ESRB should

Lunarbunny: I see most sellers doing very well at regulating sales to minors

Pause: No regulation of sales for a sole reason: Sales in certain video games really DON'T invoke certain actions, they're just a scape goat

Skeeb: Hell no, Parents oughta regulate, The ESRB does a good job of getting the point across with a big fat M

Skull9490|ups|: yeah

{JAF}Gen Renton: hell no

Shattered Moon: They got a harder task than their parents did, so they dont want to do it.

{SBOD}s ninja: .........what i think needs to be done is to educate parents about the games and how they can help and hurt the kids and let it be both a mutual agreement between the kids and the adults as to what games are played

{CIA}Crimson_Might: why doesnt the USA just make this a red country end of story?

AdDiCt: video games are an art form,... if digital art and cgi are art forms then video games sure as hell are and you dont censor art... f*** that

Seraph: IF they were desensitised to viole,ce the American government is trying to take full advantage of that by using Americas Army as a recruiting tool

Skull9490|ups|: no

[ZiiP]Lazzars: no, they have no right for that sort of thing, besides they have shown again and again they know nothing about games or youth culture at all

Pause: Agreed with Skeeb

Katana: IF YOU ARE ABOUT TO SAY "PARENTS ARE TO BLAME/NEED TO DO THEIR JOBS, CAN IT BECAUSE 500 PEOPLE HAVE SAID TI BEFORE YOU AND YOU ARE WASTING CHAT SPACE"

Dendei: Regulation of sales? I think that isn't the governments responsibility here in relation to games. I think such a task should be handled on a trade level, or even just a parental level

insertnamehereizzel: If parents cared about what their kids were playing/watching and took more interest in their kids lives Columbine wouldn't of happened

Atomic|√êdí³: failed our parents?

Elric: Censorship is bad, because if the American goverment censors videogames, the whole american versions will be censored, incluiding Mexico and Canada

The Chaos Demon: The ESRB, the system is perfect as it is right now and the government shouldn't get involved in what should be and IS the parent's decision.

grammatoneric: The problem is parents still think that video games are for kids. The fact of the matter is video games have been targeted to adults specifically more and more. So like movies some video games are not appropriate for children this is why there is an esrb. If people actually understood that those ratings are there for a reason we wouldn't even need to consider censorship as an issue.

St(+)rck: ESRB and parents are the responsibilty IMO

PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: YES they do but that's not a bad thing. i am not phased by violence but neither are soldiers in the US army. as long as someone has a code of ethics and strong morals and a sense of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY it doesn't matter how desensitized they are

Skull9490|ups|: PARENTS DONT TAKE RESPONSIBLITY FOR THEIR KIDS

Atomic|√êdí³: Parents failed their kids

{JAF}Gen Renton: I would rather go with the bastards at esrb then our government

§ TexanMan §: aa has the most censorship of any game out there

russia545: jesus christ this is like mega chat

Skull9490|ups|: THEY BLAME IT ALL ON VIDEOGAMES

Lunarbunny: In fact, a recent study found that parents are very aware of the ESRB

russia545: I cant read anything

russia545: Ok

Lunarbunny: lemme find the article

TDF-ACE: i think if i had kids i wod not let tem use x-fire if it hade that sex stuf on it

.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: ESRB dosen't do s*** go to thier site everything they say says they don't inforce it they only give gide lines

Dark Chili: look, the current rating system's fine, it's just that people are too stupid now that they don't care

Dendei: Keep the caps to a minimum people, lets keep this cival

Peach: Also i think new rateing would help as well and the discription of why the game is rated M should be larger just to catch peoples eyes

Neebs: Congress shouldn't be regulating games. Maybe in 30 some years where we have us leading the world, who did this so long ago...but how many Congressmen play video games and understand it.

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: What could the gouvernment possibly do about that ?

{ONC}Mordakaida: It is not that games make people anti-social.. it's that us the kids who were beat up every day of our school days had no where to turn but games.. Games were our friends because we go to school and get our butts kickedl. which lead to my social anixty ;) it's not the games it's the people

Skull9490|ups|: yeah

Shattered Moon: Seriously its "NO BLINKING ALLOWED" in here

Pause: Parents are aware of the ratings, they just don't pay attention to it, and would rather say its someone else's fault

§ TexanMan §: lol

Skeeb: wow, go dennis

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: The only thing that you could add to ESRB right now

Pause: pointing the finger is easier than taking responsibility

Katana: Dendei: Sorry for the first, was trying to do the second

insertnamehereizzel: lol

[Xfire] SDaria: IF YOU USE ALL CAPS FOR YOUR COMMENTS (LIKES THIS) YOU WILL BE MUTED.

Jester: Thank You Dennis!

russia545: Parents would do anything to please their children

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: is to ban certain types of games

Peach: i agree with dennis

Shattered Moon: Rawr,

Elric: cool

Skull9490|ups|: just make the rating symbol larger the older u need to be

Shattered Moon: shush

TDF-TITAN: yup

Steel Bear: the headcount is getting smaller.. may be a bit slower soon, if we're lucky..

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: but this is useless

[Xfire]TwiceUzi: ---------As a reminder: spam, line breaks, and off topic statements will be muted

Lunarbunny: bah, now I have to find the article

Shattered Moon: Mute thing self, please. Mr. Caps.

Anyway....

§ TexanMan §: what happedned to ka

Skull9490|ups|: ................................................ parents are all the problem

Atomic|√êdí³: Seeing as GTA you needed to mod it to get tittiesyou should take that inot account

Seraph: What Grand theft auto situation?

{JAF}Gen Renton: games are not any fun when censored conker shouldn't be censored at all

Dark Chili: I think that they're more for f***ing over video games than movies is because it actually simulates you killing the dude, movies can be an all out gorefest, so can games, the difference is that it is you pulling the digital trigger

Elric: hot coffe...

insertnamehereizzel: Here is an idea, how about blockbuster, EB games etc. check the IDs and do their jobs?

Lunarbunny: http://www.harrisongroupinc.com/ATVI120506

Seraph: Thats not even an issue..

.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: Yes i agree parents are problem who agrees?

Skull9490|ups|: no

{JAF}Gen Renton: conker should never do censored

Jester: the problem isnt regulation, I dont know a single store within driving distance that would sell me an M rated game, and im 16

Dendei: The fact is, you have to get to the base of the sales. These kids arent just getting money from anywhere. Their parents are supplying it for the most part, so I think some responsibility has to be held there

Steel Bear: saying parents are the only problem is like saying games are the only reason for shooting.. a completly arogant statement which is far over simplifying the problem

Eizzil: In response to [Xfire]TwiceUzi: Issues of ultimate responsibility aside, do you think that video games do lead to gamers becoming desensitized to violence?....: I think gamers know the difference between what's on the screen and what's real life, just as movie-viewers or football players do. Being desensitized to violence would be a pre-existing trait. Games can't change a person that way.

otakuman24: I'm going to wait for most of the commotion to die down as this is getting out of control here. I can hardly read anything before it's scrolled off, and that's after resizing

DaSniper: I feel that the government shouldn't have a hand in Video game Censorship. Instead the goverment should be focused on making sure parents know and understand the rules of video game rated lables. When Ychip came out they had and are still having commercials on how to stop kids from seeing adult TV shows.

Skeeb: My parents had me show them reviews of games before i was 17

Kerotan: i would diagree with the notion that people come desesitized to violence, in my exp, it hasn't affected me

§ TexanMan §: stores like gamestop should tell the person whos buying the game whats in it

{CIA}Crimson_Might: skull

Skull9490|ups|: yea?

Julien: In The Sims 2 theres already censorship

{CIA}Crimson_Might: that is your perents and game providers problem

Lunarbunny: The thing is that congress censoring games would create a new standard just for games

Neebs: Oh yes Dennis just made a good point. This is the only form of expression being attempted to censor. Did we not do this crap with Rock N Roll, comic books and things?

Katana: Skull makes a good point, see what could the parent have done?

{ONC}Mordakaida: If i do not want my nephew to play a game.. He does not play that game even if mother buys these games he should nto be playing.

Elric: lol, nude blurs to cover the sims just sucks xD

Pause: lol

Eternal Sun: or rly?

Pause: But see

[PF] Ertle: u heard the regulater earlier

.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: why kids they have the right to play what they want

Pause: instead of finding the real problem when kids go nuts in school, they're just blaming it all on a video game

{SBOD}s ninja: i myself dont play anything ultra violent cause it gets stupid

Pause: and then it becomes a battle of politics

{CIA}Crimson_Might: texasman have you been reading?

Eternal Sun: i think games that allow you rto kill other humans brbrutally should be kept from people who are considered dangerous

{JAF}Gen Renton: their are some fun things in the game

Lunarbunny: I go to the local Best Buy or GameStop and they card me

Neebs: When I have kids...I'll be the bloody regulator....I know what I can take now...I know what he will take.

Atomic|√êdí³: Censorship is bad n general

{SBOD}s ninja: and i dont play porno cause thats better to watch

[PF] Ertle: if UT didnt have people exploding when blown up then what would the point be?

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Of course you're going to see the games grow more realistic in gore-related stuff

Dark Chili: it's cause of Columbine, just cause the dumbass shot up the school played Doom, they want us all down as a pre-emptive strike

{JAF}Gen Renton: ya

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: or nudity-related stuff

Kerotan: censoring is a bad thing because it goes aginst the right for free speach

AdDiCt: censoring art is not right... having anyone change the artist's rendition (without their permission) is liek moraly wrong

Seraph: You think they should go and try it in the real world eternal sun?

Pause: people are either pro-Hilary or against the whole Censoring legislation

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: but it's still the same as it was back then... same content... with better graphics

Skull9490|ups|: there are also mods for WoW and Sims so u CAN see titties etc

.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: this guy in main florr said thier is a corelation yes there is but correlation and connection have 2 different meanings

Neebs: But my baby-boomer parents, hell no. My dad played Mario 64 with me, but he was a child of the 60s and 70s....he doesn't know.

{ONC}Mordakaida: If we censor games.. then we will have to get into censoring other thigns such as tv, movies.. magazines.. books.. just goes back to the 50's why dont' we.

{CIA}Crimson_Might: what would MOH be like without an extreme blood mod?

§ TexanMan §: you also have the right not to buy that game

Master Kim: I would let my child play Halo, but not GTA.

Elric: censoring a ame is a bad thing, because if you censor something then you'd be making a distinction between what you can play and you can't, violating free speech

Pause: Kerotan: No, censoring isn't against freedom of speech

Master Kim: Some games are acceptable, others are not.

Pause: Guys, there's a difference between REGULATION and CENSORSHIP

Nodgene: The idea that censoring games is acceptable is rediculous for several reasons... Firstly, that movies are far more violent and porographic than games. "Hostel" anyone? Movies also hold a dangerous amount of alienation. People watch them and don't feel connected to the content at all. However, in a game you feel responsible for your actions. I personally do 2V2s online on "Generals" and feel bad about killing the woeful players that manage to join a game of ours... Players feel responsible for their actions, far more so than watching a movie in which some woman gets raped and murdered by a psychopath... It's not THEIR actions. I feel, that what is aimed to be censored because of its bad influence is actually beneficial. If people play a gorey game about war, they'll feel more inclinged to cringe at what they're doing, than simply watching it being done.

.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: censoring is to a degree

Shattered Moon: Farenheit 451 all over again.

Ravenhawk: It is the responsibility of those making the games to regulate what they're putting out there. If anything, the requirement should be on the makers of the different media types to label what exists in their product. (violence, etc.)

[PF] Ertle: man

insertnamehereizzel: I think the only, ONLY thing that should be censored is porn in video games. I mean why have porn in a video game?

[ZiiP]Lazzars: besides for congress there is no grey, its either bad or its not. at least at the moment they admit that not everyone is the same

Master Kim: My point is, let the parents decide what's best for the child.

PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: censoring ANYTHING is wrong. if you censor it, you attach a stigma to it. if there is no stigma there is no problem and there is no need for censoring!

§ TexanMan §: yes

Lunarbunny: Then we get loudmouths like Jack Thompson who try to tie games to everything bad

[Xfire-TTHS] Klaak: my biggest concern is that people think video games need to be gruesome to be fun

Dark Chili: will they need to censor Pac-man cause he eats in the game? is eating a violation of ratings? where is the f***ing line drawn?

§ TexanMan §: also some merdering

Skull9490|ups|: i think that any censorship is violating our bill of rights

{CIA}Crimson_Might: texasman i would stop buying games if i couldnt see blood, tits, and hear f***you when i kill someone

Jester: Senator, Id like to hear the name of a store where a child can buy an M rated game

[Xfire]TwiceUzi: well, aren't some things worthy of bearing a stigma?

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Movies are more violent then games "Hostel" ?????

.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: yes but movies are very much so have had that violnce for ever it is a shock that one can play through a violent movie aka Games

Pause: Regulation is fine in some degree, but when it becomes a living hyperbole then its censoring

[PF] Ertle: having porn in some video games makes it more realistic to the times (God of war)

Skull9490|ups|: gamestop

Project X: if u censor it kids will get more intrested to see what it is

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: but it has the rating that goes with it too

[PF] Ertle: nobody can read a huge paragraph like that in this chat room

Pause: Not a Pie: Not everyone is as sensible as us

Steel Bear: they could aslways ad a UC (uncensored) rating to video games, and dump anything quesrtionable into that category along with a strong warning sign to parents

Seraph: Some things are, yes. But those things, like all others have an age rating Twice

Skull9490|ups|: lol

§ TexanMan §: some people dont buy a game to look at someones tits all day

Skull9490|ups|: but

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: it's for Adults only i think

insertnamehereizzel: It is an unachieveable goal to censor games and it shouldn't be a big issue. There will ALWAYS be ways around the censors

Dark Chili: Dude, 10 minutes of the Nightly News has more violence that some M rated games

Pause: You have to realise that SOME people do have problems such as Anti-social personality

-|HR|-Mugzzzy: People who have the tendency to be violent will find ways to express their violence whether through video games or in the alley beating someone up. If anything, I think video games serve as a good way to release some of the anger or tension that type of person has built up throughout the day.

{SBOD}s ninja: what they said about parents not viewing all footage of a game is true but the parents could be informed of the actuall scope of the game

Julien: I'd say only porn should be censorned like they do in the sims 2

Master Kim: If I see Leatherface attack someone with a chainsaw, do you think I'll do the same after watching a violent movie like The Texas Chainsaw massacre?

Skeeb: I just hate how most parents don't bother with the ESRB system

[Xfire-TTHS] Klaak: games don't need amazing graphics or gruesome violence to be fun. hell chess is fun

Neebs: Skull- But those are MODS....they aren't commericial products. If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." reagenomics DON'T WORK WITH THE INTERNET!

Pause: and the like, and THEY might get affected, HOWEVER we can't put the blame on games

[ZiiP]Lazzars: some games go overboard for the sake of it, those are the ones that get the media on them and are used as an example for banning others

Shattered Moon: The parents should really be paying attention to the individual child and not the entire nation.

Peach: games are different than movies for the sheer fact that you are controling the person doing the violence

Skull9490|ups|: still i think that M should merge with AO and make it just 18+ no 17+

Master Kim: Granted, games are much more interactive, but still...

Shattered Moon: or world.

Dark Chili: why censor porn? porn rules

Pause: if anything, the PARENTS who know about the problem should regulate what their kids are doing

Skull9490|ups|: ...........

{CIA}Crimson_Might: GAMES NEED AMAZING GRAPHICS!!!

Lunarbunny: again, I say that retailers are doing an extremely good job at carding people

insertnamehereizzel: Wow, no blinking in here or you miss everything

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: lol Klaal

§ TexanMan §: or just push the m rating to like 19 or 20

Dark Chili: did you miss it, parents now are dumb as f***

{ONC}Mordakaida: I have played violent games since I was 24.. I have been beat up during school to the point of being beating.. and they call us games the violent ones

Not a Pie: dark chili : we are talking about video games man

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Klaak

Katana: Crimson: You're an idiot

Master Kim: That's pretty much right izzel.

Pause: I mean really, people started trying to incorporate the Virginia Tech massacre to video games

Dark Chili: it's all the same thing

Eizzil: I think it would be fair to allow Congress to legislate some censorship in video games, or any other media. However, I think they should only be allowed to do so if there is a vast amount of solid, evidential proof that their censorship choices are neccessary.

-{ÐÑC}-Pâtrïót-{L}-: I agree too, but perhaps instead of M it should be different levels of M

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: let's just say that i prefer the interactivity of WoW or UT or these types of games

Master Kim: It's no different than movies.

§ TexanMan §: yes

Julien: Crimson: It matters about gameplay, not graphics

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: to Chess

s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: we need to regulate it like we regulate alcohol, if a kid shows up at school drunk, the parents are asked about it, we need to do the same if kids start to become violent. HOWEVER, drugs are still being sold on the streets, and the same sort of things. and while the parents should be made aware, censoring would just be about as pointless as prohibition was back in the twenties.

{CIA}Crimson_Might: i didnt spend 5000 dollars on a computer to have doom 1 graphics!!!!

Elric: they always blame videogames for bad things

Invader_Akira: it still wouldn't matter if it was rated AO 18+ b/c they would just get the parents to buy it

Master Kim: To be fair, games are much more interactive...

.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: Increse in age will do nothing it will just make it more taboo and society has always done what is taboo ath the time

Project X: child crime has gone down since vilent video games

{SBOD}s ninja: ........well no you havvent cause anyone who tries something in the game tends to die

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: playing the product

otakuman24: TV has been around for much longer and has seen much more research and results

[Xfire]TwiceUzi: In response to Dendei, I agree; at a certain level there is a difference between viewing a violent act and undertaking it (even if it is with an avatar)

Adreniline: shootings are cause by multiple factors, not just a game

{ONC}Mordakaida: I aggree with Loaded. Cho was messed up before he played CS.

grammatoneric: I would like to know what the problem with allowing game designers to regulate themselves? It is their vision and if they want it to be a violent or sexual game then they have that right. It seems that as long as they are willing to admit that a game is not for children there shouldn't even be a question of censorship. I understand that rockstar shocked everyone with "hot coffee" but I don't see what difference it really made since that game was rated Mature anyway.

insertnamehereizzel: Reatailers in my areas are good with checking IDs. It is the parents fault for not taking more of a rule in their childs life

TDF-TITAN: should we make it so if ur not 18u can't play the gameS?

Jester: now wait a minute, the violence in the schools of America can be traced to many issues, at the forefront are such issues as Gun Control

.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: why not senor art then game design is art

§ TexanMan §: i agree

{CIA}Crimson_Might: how about this? take out all guns from games and replaces them with teddy bears?

.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: *censor

[ZiiP]Lazzars: people have to look for rasoning behind everything, games just happen to be an easy fit, whatever happened to people being crazy?

digimediafinance: In his book "the creation of the media", author Paul Starr discussies one by one the political, legal, technical and economic enviroment for most of our wel known media at the time of their creation and earliest evolutin into the general zeitgeist.

I rarely see any discussion of games along these lines - that we are experiencing the birth of a new medi, which is not really well defined along any of those axes, and is likely to change and grow rapidly in the immediate and foreseeable future.

In addition, the new medium presents jursidictional issues for any government regulation.

Can the speakers address provide their thoughts on these matters?

Not a Pie: childs reduce their frustration by playing violent games

Skull9490|ups|: i think just put a blood options

Jester: so I dont believe anything in terms of relating games to VT massacre or Columbine

Dark Chili: it

The Chaos Demon: But how does counter-strike, and game using a MOUSE and KEYBOARD allow a person to shoot better? They allow no training in aiming a gun and pressing the trigger.

Dark Chili: it's a stress reliever

Adreniline: they are caused by home situations, life problems, bullying, actually..........they are caused by nearly everything

Lunarbunny: I believe that insane murderers play lots of violent games but violent games don't make insane murderers

Seraph: Agreed chaos demon

{SBOD}s ninja: ...........violent videogames are good beacause they offer important stress relife and calm people down but to much violence and the kids start to get a warpped sense of reality and dont know whats going on

Pause: Saying that video games had EVERYTHING to do with violent actions is like saying The Fast and the Furious invoked ALL street racing in our day

Not a Pie: but they don't kill real ppl cauz they play violent games, that's insane

{CIA}Crimson_Might: blood options are now a common options because people have crap computers

§ TexanMan §: its the action of pointing a gun at some 1

Invader_Akira: I pointed that out earlier

Elric: because since kids get acces to M rated games, Hot Coffee freaked parents out, but it's THEIR JOB to prevent children from playing it

.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: Columbine they did play agmes VT hell no Dr phil is just makeing random accusations

PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: people only take drastic dangerous action when they feel they have nothing left to lose. not because of a game. the columbine kids chose to kill those kids because they felt they were living in hell and couldn't take it anymore

Katana: Chaos Demon: Often improves reflexes, one kid was able to literally headshot 3 policemen

Kaizer Döuken: Altought I agree with senator yee(not to sell video game to minors) I also believe that "minor" should be overlooked. I would say: Do not sell M rated games to a minor without a drivers license since I believe 16 years old persone is mature enough to watch this type of violence

Ravenhawk: How can you say that violent videogames make you violent but violent movies dont?

Eizzil: Professionally conducted studies organized by groups such as the American Psychological Association (APA) supported that preexisting traits have a significantly greater impact on behavior than video game playing. There is no strong link between violent video games and real world aggression.

.:ハルマゲドン:.: so by censoring, you may be able to control and moderate violence! but yet you're wrong you are violating human rights and freedom yourself, so I think blames should be placed upon someone else not the gaming industry or gamers, for example it is the market who should be more catious about letting mature games reach the hands of kids, don't you think so, and again if you trying to keep censoring things, what differences your country would have with mines (I'm from Iran) who have censored everything, and I mean everything in my country and we reached the level that we cannot do anthing about it....

Pause: and politicians picking up the issue and trying to gain votes

Katana: Raven: The interactivity

insertnamehereizzel: As for the GTA porn, that shouldve been censored. Bringing porn into a video game is like bringing free guns into Baghdad, it adds more fuel to the fight for censorship

Seraph: Indeed, why is this question not being asked about movies?

.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: I agree with Raven hawk how?

.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: k

[PF] Ertle: because in movies your not in direct control

Jester: Senator, I think you might be talking to Biased Psychaiatrists

EGLN|_Loaded: Using a mouse doesn't really give you hand-eye cooridination, in fact, it can cause carpel tunnel.

{ONC}Mordakaida: When i was growing up.. I had severe muscle deformities in my hands and legs. My mom baught me a game system.. the eye/hand cordination helped my musscled grow in my hands and let me lead a normal life. I can type now because of games. If anythign that is why I became a huge gamer now.

[PF] Ertle: in a video game your controlling your avatar

AdDiCt: censoring any art form in a free society will eventually make it illegal

Project X: i say we try an regulate games a bit but put a censor on only if they chose

Ravenhawk: I've get rid of stress playing shooters or slash ups. If I watched a slasher movie, it wouldn't relieve stress, but it might up addrenalin

The Chaos Demon: So since something improves hand-eye coordination, it should be banned?

Atomic|√êdí³: i played doom, blood, UT, alot of star wars games, GTA from the ages 8 till now and I am a productive member of soceity, working on my degree, in hte US Air Force, with a girlfriend, etc

Elric: censoring anything violates free speech

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Censorship is already being used in games.. by seperating games in Ratings of Age

Kerotan: hot coffee was never intended to part of the game

Lunarbunny: Todays excercise will be running to conclusions and knee-jerk reactins

Skull9490|ups|: it messes w/ the bill of rights

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: which is good enough

PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: i disagree, i play a lot of FPS and it has helped my ability to snipe targets at long range with a real rfile

Pause: Elric: Not exactly, you know, slander and libel, however thats off topic :X

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: sellers in EB Games and other stores

§ TexanMan §: its the action your charator is doing which makes some games wrong

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: just need to start doing their jobs

The Chaos Demon: Let's ban every activity that does so then, and see what the world turns into.

{ONC}Mordakaida: If it was not for games. I be a prune right now

PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: but i don't go killing people because i am a RESPONSIBLE ADULT

{SBOD}s ninja: i have a question for the you video games are played by billions each year and is a massive part of the industry why do you think they sell

otakuman24: Ouch, burn from Dan

Elric: "ZOMG let's ban teh porn movies so my child can't jerk off"........ It's not like teenagers don't go around having sexual intercourse anyway, not gonna work.......

EGLN|_Loaded: BIQ: But still, parents are going to balem the things their children see on the gaming community, not theirselves for letting their child purchase it.

Invader_Akira: I agree with Atomic... I'm working on my degree and I'm married and I haven't shot anyone or committed acts of violence

Jester: has anyone considered the fact that games help teens? I myself enjoy games such as Rainbow six and CS as a way to get out aggresion

Lunarbunny: They wanted to get GTA out. Hot coffee was programmed in partly, and I'll tell you that taking things out of a program can be one HELL of a job

insertnamehereizzel: When you hear of the people that killed others because they saw PASSION OF THE CHRIST or GTA, you must FIRST BRING INTO ACCOUNT THEIR MENTAL HEALTH!! Dont say because they played this they killed people

Nodgene: I believe the senator is wrong on a presumption... That parents do not have time to play a video game... Fair enough, but they should take an active interest in what their child does, as such, they should be at least, not alien to video games... What good is a parent if they cannot at least understand what their child is doing? Sure, technology is intimidating, but so are young people... If you want to censor things that children COULD get, because they are not designed for children? Why not go to ban all violent and pornographic movies? Oh, I forgot... Because those are not new things. The majority of the censorship lobby is fanned by neophobia and ignorance of who games are designed for and why people play them. Has the Senator ever played CSS when he feels angry? Does he know how thereputic it is to blow someone's head off in a game, to save yourself thinking of doing it in-

Lunarbunny: and can break a lot of things

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: simple Ninja... because there is all kinds of games for everyone from everywhere

Nodgene: real life?

Ravenhawk: "Value a child's innocence" I'm sorry but that is just rediculous. Children grow up, whether you like it or not..

Not a Pie: jester : yeah i know, games doesn't make ppl violent

Dendei: In response to Senator Yee, I think the act of killing someone in a video game, and killing someone in real life are two completely different acts. A video game does not prepare you to kill a man any more than playing Madden gets you closer to being a quarterback

Invader_Akira: well put Jester... I play CS to relieve stress

Pause: Exactly. Especially in Generation X

EGLN|_Loaded: It was actually reported on a recent scientific study that the heavy, fast paces action in FPS and other games help you see more sharply.

Steel Bear: personaly i don't see how CS is any worse than a game like rugby/football, where you are actually ramming into others and causing them pain. In my eyes thats an even more violent way to relieve stress... yet no one ever blames a sport for evoking violent feelings in a person.

grammatoneric: Yeah, that factor of the matter is rational people are able to differential between fact and fiction.

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: the days of Mario brothers are long gone... we're in a all-out era of Video games

Pause: There IS no innocence frankly

{CIA}Crimson_Might: not every person has a mental problem

§ TexanMan §: parents blame the violence in the video games for their kids behaveuour when its the parents falut

Master Kim: I do.

Kerotan: i think that giving a certain social group, the ablity to censor games rather moral dangerous

[PF] Ertle: ha, innocent children, ive seen a 14 year old doing crack

Master Kim: :D

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: introducing stunning features, etc...

Peach: again violent people are attracted to violent games its not the games fault its the persons

Julien: In WoW, they should make it less addictive, people have actually died from that game. Except addiction isn't really talking about censorship.

{SBOD}s ninja: jester i said that earlier and they do i havent been in a fight in 5 years cause i killl fake people instead of hurting real peopl

Katana: Steel Bear: Guns kill, shoulder thrusts don;t

Pause: The fact that 13 year old kids can sit on the computer and search up porn in 3 minutes

Jester: in that case Senator, we should be banning Nerf guns as well

§ TexanMan §: yes

Dark Chili: hell, I'm sure we all play crap loads of violent games and we all haven't shot anyone, f***, odds are a virtual swat team is gonna break up this "potentially deadly" meeting of video gamers

§ TexanMan §: even with a blocker

Lunarbunny: 3 minutes? More like 20 seconds.

EGLN|_Loaded: @ Porn: Exactly

Pause: basically proves that innocence is gone, and there's nothing we can do about it. Kids will do what they will, whether we stop it or not

insertnamehereizzel: If we are going to censor games why aren't we going to censor porn?

Shattered Moon: Julien, please give me a link to an article relating to WoW deaths.

Not a Pie: pause : we are talking about video games, not porn

[ZiiP]Lazzars: the internet is for 3 things, porn video games and copyright theft

The Chaos Demon: So you should sue blizzard because they made a product that was too good?

Shattered Moon: Otherwise, I call your bluff.

Dark Chili: hell, I got porn on my favorites list and i'm f***ing 15

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: 20 seconds is still kinda long

[Xfire] SDaria:

*****NEXT QUESTION*****

So, is there a place for games that incorporate shooting or other forms of person-to-person violence in games marketed for teens and/or pre-teens?

Ravenhawk: Long before violent videogames, children were torturing small animals and beating up smaller kids..

PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: :flashbang: this is a raid! put your hands in the air gamers! you're all under arrest!

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: www.google.com "porn"

Julien: Everywhere you go, everything you search on google, theres always a stupid porn site in every search

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: there you go

§ TexanMan §: thank you for shareing that chlli

♥ wMute ♥: Video Game censorship is a big topic because of it's growing popularity amongst mainstream crowds. Like music in the 60s, the older generation wasn't ready and didn't understand it. The same with video games. Those who attempt to censor it do not understand it

{SBOD}s ninja: no we are talking about censorship and porn is a main topic

EGLN|_Loaded: Minimal things are being done to protect children from porn, while video games are receiving legislature that can possibly make it illegal for someone to buy a game above their age limit

Pause: Not a Pie: I'm comparing it to us, we can't say that "we value children's innocence" by censoring, because kids do what they willl either way.

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: at the age of 14 you are not supposed to see someone ripping out organs out of another person

Lunarbunny: The ESRB makes MONEY by rating games

Atomic|√êdí³: again goto best buy, you can buy ghetto-rap and porno, but so help you god if you want a M video game, you need a birth-certificate

{CIA}Crimson_Might: we are 18+

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: even if it's in a game

Katana: Peach: Postal.

Ravenhawk: It is not the fault of the industry that the children get the M games, its the parents and the stores

eerofromfinland: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Censoring violence from an action/shooter/stragegy game makes no sense at all, its still about warfare, even without the blood, so i'd be as good as beeping the swear words from pr0n, everyone knows exactly whats going on, but the game only looks retarded

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: once they are old enough they will have plenty of time to discover the sick things that can happen in life

Julien: 5 year olds playing Halo= Too young

Katana: Jester: IT'S THE INTERACTIVITY

{CIA}Crimson_Might: anyone know how the explicit content sticker got on cds? and how twisted sister is connected with it?

eerofromfinland: why not cencor bible? theres more gore and sex in that thing than most games and movies

Lunarbunny: Asking for responsible people is a big leap

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: they dont need to see it all at 13 or 14

[=NA=] §àrgôn: Start censoring one thing, and others will be sure to follow

Shattered Moon: That is not his fault or Blizzard's fault as much as it is THE PARENT'S fault for letting him PLAY that much.

.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: if we censor video games why not every thing in life heck restric the meida from showing things in the iraq war

Jester: id like to hear the names of these non carding retailers, ive never found one

Atomic|√êdí³: Just like anything

{SBOD}s ninja: mordakaida makes a good point its basically the same game with diffrent skins hell even spyro had violence you killed people burnt them and crushed butterflys that bout kills innocence right there

§ TexanMan §: more responsible adults who know why the game is rated and where it is in that game

PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: wow eerofromfinland just owned everyone with that one

otakuman24: How does Dan know if many retailers card or not? As an adult, how would he know?

Kerotan: in britain the BFCC, judges if a game is suitable for a certain age rating, if that be 3+ or 18+, and this means that those games shouldn't be played by people under that age-i do not know why it isn't like that in the US

[Xfire] SDaria: *****NEXT QUESTION*****

Is the rating system of the ESRB adequate with respect both to consumer choice and regulation of advertising and sales?

♥ wMute ♥: In terms of restrictions on gaming, some game companies do it for 'shock value' while others do it because they do so in a parodical manner, such as GTA. If i were to compare GTA and a game like Postal 2, I would say GTA does it in a cartoonish way while Postal does it in a truly disturbing manner

Skeeb: yes it is

»ÌщS« 1™: yes

Master Kim: No, it is not adequate.

EGLN|_Loaded: @BIQ: TV and Movies are more readily availble to kids than games. I believe that they'll see violence on TV before gaming.

Project X: its like a snowball effect we censor on thing it goes to anthor and anthor until we cant see anything

Ravenhawk: The ESRB has one of the best rating systems of any media, it is far superior to that of any other form of media....

Pause: Yes it is, the problem is that Parent's aren't paying attention to it

Elric: I played Doom when i was 3 years old, and I'm not a violent person (I'm 14), I'm an excellent student and I've never commited any agresive actions towards other people.....

insertnamehereizzel: Carding IMO is the best thing to do. If we carded and TRUELY TOLD PARENTS what was in the game they were buying I GARENTEE YOU that parents will not let them get it

»ÌщS« 1™: Your face isnt adequete

[PF] Ertle: they just dont understand what it means

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: SDaria, it sure is, i'd say ESRB's job is flawless on 99% of the games

[PF] Ertle: burn

{ONC}Mordakaida: Heck.. I'm 24 and if I play to much games my mother comes over to my house and takes my ear pulling me off the game..

The Chaos Demon: Yes, the ESRB is the perfect system, but some people are never happy with things and they want it change.

Katana: Elric: Grades. Now.

Seraph: The Gears of War advert was extremely tasteful considering its content. That would NOT be sold to minors here in the uk

Master Kim: The ESRB system is good.

EGLN|_Loaded: Yeah, I agree that the ESRB is a good system.

[=NA=] §àrgôn: i agree it is

PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: there only really need to be two ratings: one for responsible people who can think for themselves, and one for stupid kids and other related imbeciles

Master Kim: It's just that sometimes they mess up.

»ÌщS« 1™: I AGREE

Jester: ive never seen a commercial on network television explaining the esrb, that might do some good

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: The only problem yet again is that stores just won't respect the system

Shattered Moon: ESRB needs to be moar detailed than anything.

♥ wMute ♥: ESRB is like movie ratings for movies downloaded on the net. nobody can restrict it. same with games

Ravenhawk: The issue isn't innaccurate ratings, it is stores not enforcing those ratings

Dark Chili: look, by censoring anything, you're f***ing over some rights that we have as humans, we can do whatever the f*** we want as long is it doesn't f*** over other people.. that't in the Bill of Rights somewhere without all the f***s but it's the same principle. All these censor dudes like Thompson are invading our space. Where does the line between freedom and communism begin? Where is our individuality by playing these games!?

§ TexanMan §: the ESRB is too light with the rateing system

Project X: i think it i8s but shoukd have more ratings

Pause: Instead of censoring, we need to find a way for PARENTS to become more involved in the rating system

.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: well atleast most of us agree on the ESRB on beiong good

Kerotan: yes the rating sytem is fine, there just needs to be restrictions from people buying 18s+ when they are 10

Lunarbunny: too light? I think they're doing fine

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: so basicly... the ESRB rating becomes futile as soon as it leaves the box to hit the store shells

»ÌщS« 1™: Your face is too light

{ONC}Mordakaida: The rating system is great.. It should prevent the kids from buying the game but not the parents to buy the game for the child.

Pause: Chili: Be light with the profanity please

Dark Chili: sorry

EGLN|_Loaded: @Dark Chili, but we're discussing what would be best for the children. A child doesn't have the freedoms that we adults do.

The Chaos Demon: There used to be ESRB commercials a lot more, but now there isn't that much.

PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: actually a true communist country wouldn't censor anything

Katana: I hate how people misuse the word "freedom"

[PF] Ertle: it could be rated X but if someone buys it for them it wouldnt matter

§ TexanMan §: they dont rate some games hard enough

Ravenhawk: True ideed, PizZap

insertnamehereizzel: But what is ESRB based on? I've seen Teen games that could be under category of Mature, IT ALL COMES DOWN TO THE BUYERS MATURITY

.:ハルマゲドン:.: So far ESRB did a great job with their rating system, so I believe its the best option available right now

Lunarbunny: example?

Master Kim: Let's talk about Oblivion--why is it that the ESRB notice just gives it a Teen rating when there's blood, gore, use of alcohol, suggestive themes, etc. and then rerate it as Mature when some modder finds a nude skin in the game?

Jester: thank you Dennis

Lunarbunny: other than oblivion or GTASA

§ TexanMan §: gta \\\\

Master Kim: That's just retarded.

grammatoneric: The truth is every aspect of our lives have aspects that are inappropriate for children. TV, Movies, books, even the bible has parts that children are not capable of understanding and frankly shouldn't be exposed to. It doesn't mean that we need to take everything adult out of the world to coddle our children. It means we need to explain things to our children and we need to determine as parents what they are ready to see or not.

Pause: No problem, I heated too but this is a debate xD Anyways, While we do have freedom of speech, there ARE some cases in which FCC can censor, however i think video games isn't one of those cases

»ÌщS« 1™: It gives it an M rating

Dendei: No, I think it could use some improvements. For starters, there doesn't seem to be any line as to what makes your game AO and not M. The majority of games are released as M, with only a very select few making it into AO. On top of that, any one who works in game retail can tell you that parents simply don't get the rating system. Persoanally I think it should mimic the way movies are rated, which is a system parents already understand quite well

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: the thing is... Store clerks will only watch if there's a massive gap between the game and the person buying it

»ÌщS« 1™: wtf are you talking about

.:]CF[:.REC.MM|FM: just because ou are older than some one it dosen't mean you are better than them

Elric: Grades: I live in Mexico, so they're in a 1-10 scale, I never get grades lower than 9, and I'm applying for a scholarship after finishing high school, got 90%!!

[PF] Ertle: because its historical/fantasy

eerofromfinland: oh and checking ID at the store doest work actually, if the kids want the game, theyll get it, illegally over the internet or play it at friends house

»ÌщS« 1™: ESRB GIVES OBLIVION AN M RATING

»ÌщS« 1™: WHAT R U SMOKING

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: like... for exemple... if a 13 years old kid wants to buy Playboy Mansion

Pause: Censoring? No, Raising Awareness? Yes.

digimediafinance: Sen. Yee raises some interesting points regarding the matter of psychology and media, wrt regulation. Can he point to any history of regulation in other media or other areas at all, where the rational basis for the legislation relied upon scientific knowledge of cognitive abilities and changes in a perswon's brain, and if there are any cases, how are they similar or different from the issue of regulating games?

The Chaos Demon: But when buying a game for your child, at least LOOK at the box. "Hmmm rated M due to alchohol use, violence, and gore?"

Lunarbunny: well, there is the issue with the fact that most mainstream retailers will not carry AO title

Lunarbunny: titles*

Katana: Pause: Epic quote there

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: there's 99% of the chances you're going to hear a No

♥ wMute ♥: Teacher once said: The more you restrict something, the mods kids want it. Kids want the rated M stuff cause it's out of their reach. If you teach them that they don't need it, they won't want it. And it's better than restrciting something

Julien: I agree with chaos demon

[PF] Ertle: famous last words

Master Kim: That's like saying the same thing with drugs.

insertnamehereizzel: lets give LIFE am M rating because cussing and sex is too bad for children

Trigger: thats right wMute

Peach: i think 18 is the age you should be able to buy games on your own

PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: it's hard to find gamers who want to censor their own games

Pause: M for mature, without a doubt

Julien: A jesus only rating ROFL

[ZiiP]Lazzars: its a good point to say that game sencorship is taken out of context, as a whole game cannot be played to be censored. as soon as something bad is found that would push it to another level then there has to be a revision of the rating otherwise the additional content would be easy to exploit

Atomic|√êdí³: the problem is that they dont believe that parents need to be responable, because no matter how much you regulate the games, kids will always be able to get them.

Master Kim: ESRB should have rated Oblivion Mature from the start, but instead they let the fact that there's some silly nude skin get them all flustered.

eerofromfinland: PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw; dont be silly, everyone knows that Finns use most alchohol ;p

Elric: Why not banning cigarettes then? people die more of smoking than anything

otakuman24: He does have a point that 18 is arbitrary, but it is the legal age

Lunarbunny: I say M, and NOT to children

Pause: because by this time, Parents know the danger, they just aren't proactive

nongamer1: The ESRB does ratings education that generates over a BILLION consumer impressions on an annual basis

{ONC}Mordakaida: hmm GTA.. I think it should be 17+

Kaizer Döuken: I believe 16-17 is more appropiate

♥ wMute ♥: ESRB Ratings are irrelevent and ignored.

nongamer1: TV, radio, print, online

Elric: I think a "child" should be able to buy a GTA game without parent's permission at the age of 14-15

{SBOD}s ninja: im fore censorship to be there but not totally killing the fun

[PF] Ertle: if its a game you can pay a hooker to have sex with you, it should have the strictest rating

{CIA}Crimson_Might: GTA sucks so i would rate it M for morbidly a waste of money

§ TexanMan §: the gta series past the 3rd one should all be rated ao

Pause: But one thing i don't see the point in is the M vs. AO ratings

-|HR|-Mugzzzy: If the "forbidden fruit" is the problem as you say, let's make marijuana, pornography, and firearms available to kids too so that they don't use them also.

[Xfire] SDaria: *****NEXT QUESTION*****

What is your opinion of the “virtual world” called Second Life? The content is created entirely by the “residents” of this world and ranges from mild to what some might consider pornographic; of course it is a site for social encounters of every kind. Is Linden Lab’s approach of dividing Second Life strictly into a Main Grid (18+) and Teen Grid (13-17) the right one to take?

Nodgene: Second life should be adult only. It's far too engrossing and requires a fluent understanding of social functioning to be really used.

Seraph: Might consider pornographic? Its possible to have sex for money in game, how much more pornographic can you get? Of course splitting it into two sections is the right way to go

Elric: never played SL.....

§ TexanMan §: if you have a life why do you need second life

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: it would be the same in a Video game store

Dendei: While I agree it need's to be split, they don't enforce it very well. It just isn't hard at all for an underage person to get into those servers

EGLN|_Loaded: People must spend real money to buy products ingame

insertnamehereizzel: I can't follow this, its jumping very fast...

Pause: Dendei: but at least they would have tried

otakuman24: Thing that gets me is that I'm witnessing a few issues that really need to be focused on

Smiling Coyote: The problem with setting age requirements lies in how easily they can be surmounted or evaded. You want to keep a game out of a kid's hands? What's to keep him from pirating it? Software piracy is a very real and extremely easy way to obtain games of all sorts and ratings. The same goes for Second Life and its "divided" grid. What's to keep the kid from lying about his age or other information?

Katana: yeah, and you need to be a certain age to have a credit card, so second life is covered

The Chaos Demon: If every MMO had that it'd be very great. You could join a 13-17 server, +18 server, and a 'All age server"

Not a Pie: Do you think playing an online game improve the interactiion between them and the community?

s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: its easier to follow if u widen ur text box to fill the screen

The_Musician: i disagree with his idea of barring off online games. online games shouldnt have restrictions, you could make rooms for different ages.

tos.meslin: HI GUYS

Skeeb: Parental controls work wonders for those who use em

eerofromfinland: can we PLEASE slow down a bit

EGLN|_Loaded: While this seems good, giving someone a social encounters other than real life, but it also promotes that people don't need human interaction.

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Not bad of an idea Chaos Demon

§ TexanMan §: insted of buying a ingame object with real cash y not just save up for the real thing

PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: i had a credit card before i was 18

[Xfire] Artaxs: How do you deal with people who offend you in any MMO? You /ignore them. ^^

Atomic|√êdí³: question

.:ハルマゲドン:.: GTA like games are not meant to be played by kids in the first place, such violence and strong language is not suitable for people younger than 16-17

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: but yet again... how do you control who gets in which room

Eizzil: Most kids are exposed to everything in the GTA series by age 13.

Dendei: They barely do, they simply ask for your age and a credit card. And with all these prepaid credit cards out there, it really isnt that hard

Atomic|√êdí³: how do kids play MMORPGS when they are pay to play?

[Xfire] SDaria:

*****NEXT QUESTION*****

How do we deal with person-to-person interaction in game spaces online?

Kaizer Döuken: I agree with harumagedon

♥ wMute ♥: the thing is, GTA is genius in terms of what it parodies. Most kids at a younger age don't understand most of the references.

Pause: I think person-to-person is fine with regulation

grammatoneric: lol

Atomic|√êdí³: Kill the other person?

[PF] Ertle: well we can have monitors in chat rooms

The Chaos Demon: The only down-point of that would be if you play a game for 4 years, you're 15, and you're on 13-17 server, would you need to switch?

Peach: nothing needs to be done

{ONC}Mordakaida: um.. Ignore everyone hehe

[Xfire] Artaxs: There are many Free MMOs -- especially the ones coming out of South Korea.

Jester: social reaction in most online games doesnt really matter, because the game does not allow for realistic sexual acts in game

PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: with admins! ban kick slap and slay!

Dark Chili: stop calling people n00bz

Ravenhawk: Ratings only work when people pay attention to them. If you buy a "cool looking" game without looking at the rating, you can't complain that the high rating game got to people..

Kerotan: players in an online world do so particpate in that world that own risk, GM can regulate the game like police men, but stuff happens while plauing MMOs which is almost imposible to encouunter

{SBOD}s ninja: thats the glory of playing online you can be who you really are you dont have restrictions placed on how you act online and it gives you the ultimate freedom which is why poeple want to take that away from us cause even in america we arnt free cause we have to follow the laws and those laws limit our freedom

Lunarbunny: we have millions of people online, thousands of ways to contact each other

Shattered Moon: When a parent buys a game for the child that is online, they entrust the admins to help to an extent.

Kerotan: *counter

Lunarbunny: there's no way to police that

Julien: This is supposed to be about video game censorship, so we shouldn't have anyone swearing her lol

eerofromfinland: nothing pisses me off more than poorly set language filter, especially if you cant switch it off, because enlgish isnt my native language and they usually seem to consider wode variety of Finnish words offensive

[PF] Ertle: the internet is like antartica, it belongs to relativley nobody specific

Pause: Sattered Moon: but isn't that them just making admins babysitters to some extent?

Julien: *here

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Yes otaku, but they swear because they hear it somewhere

♥ wMute ♥: People should be taught not to have to take any online harassment, rather than trying to 'moderate' this sort of negative behavior. It's up to those that are involved from p2p, with no 3rd parties.

[PF] Ertle: so you only govern what little you own

Elric: exactly, Internet belongs to the people

Not a Pie: Do you think an online video game can improve the interaction between the gamer and the community?

insertnamehereizzel: Playing online is like going into the lions den, the lion might be there or it might not.... It is virtually impossibile to moderate online games

{GĔG} ҜĬĿĿĖR: yep

EGLN|_Loaded: When a parent buys a game for a child that is above their ESRB rated age, the parent should expect the child to be mature enough to handle situations the child is put in.

Dark Chili: For a child's sake... "Michael Jackson = worse than voilent video games

Lunarbunny: I personally thing that the receiver of any abuse should report the abuser

Project X: i mean u still hear in ceral commercials Ask Your Parents For Premisooin Before Going Online

§ TexanMan §: there should be a strict age limit to be playing games online or the kids who do play online should be aware of what is going on

Lunarbunny: it doesn't take that long and you'll feel good doing it

Kaizer Döuken: For online multi conten games there should be heavy campaings that should alert parents, and there also should be a new rating for this type of games since you can experience an E type of experience as such as an M type

Julien: True, true

The Chaos Demon: I think that when technology reaches a high points, some developer will find a way to solve the problem of Online play and social interaction, because quite frankly, right now this hobby attracts a lot of 'jacka**es'

Skeeb: Now if we could get rid of sqeaukers in Halo 2...

Master Kim: Amen.

♥ wMute ♥: there should be no restrictions on gaming whatsoever.

insertnamehereizzel: Subliminal advertising is to blame...

Seraph: They should try legislation bad language, violence and guns in schools - That worked out well

♥ wMute ♥: if you restrict something, people will find a way to access it.

eerofromfinland: that thompson guy should be banned from TV, he gives kids bad impression about adults

AdDiCt: don't report him, fight back with knowledge (or violence if you're stupid)

§ TexanMan §: so your saying no ESRB?

Lunarbunny: a parent cannot be there 24/7, but they can talk to their kids

Dark Chili: cause it f***ing is

Nodgene: Julien, your attitude is somewhat concerning. How are you so offended at little words? I would be more offended if someone made a racist or sexist comment than if they swore in a setence.

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: no games pushes someone to massacres, executions and suicide

EGLN|_Loaded: @14 year olds on XBLive- These are the kids who's parents blame gaming for their child's cursing

.:ハルマゲドン:.: it sure is

grammatoneric: Why would a parent have to be there 24/7? If a parent does thier job their child will know how to behave even in their absence.

♥ wMute ♥: The VTech killings and the relation to video games was nothing more than news media sensationalism where video games were only ASSUMED to be the problem because of the columbine.

Seraph: The man had serious mental issues such as depression. They wiuld LOVE to blame it on videogames, as that would distract attention from the gun control issue it raised

insertnamehereizzel: IMO games have nothing to do with the VT Killings. Look at the persons mental health before blaming the game!!!

{SBOD}s ninja: yeah but think about it we have control of iraq basically and yet we still call it a war were now defending but this is just what i gather from the news

Lunarbunny: good point about XBL

[ZiiP]Lazzars: its not really an issue of cencorship on Xbox live its an issue of maturity, is 14 mature enough to take dying? i think the many coments on the subject prove that they are not

Elric: That is a ridiculous theory, the influence of DOOM on DYLAN and KLEBOLD at least had facts......

AdDiCt: everyone plays games in some form or another... its like saying "music" caused him to kill them, or "swimming"

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: i mean... CSS is one of the most played games on earth

Jester: I agree Russ

Pause: I addressed that issue before, all it is is a scapegoat, since they can't blame it on others who noticed that he was literally insane

§ TexanMan §: its people who beleave games can cause death

Dark Chili: what about numa numa guy.... there's much worse things than voilence on the net

Atomic|√êdí³: Is this all over that nutcase in Virgina?

♥ wMute ♥: tthe fact that they found no games in his room shows that the media was merely trying to add an angle to a story where they was no angle needed.

Dendei: Honestly, I feel that the claims are baseless. The search warrent turned up no video games at all. The only reference we have of him EVER playing games was in high school over 4 years ago

Eizzil: Cho was also a creative, passionate writer, which can often be a hobby of young people who commit violence. So why is Thompson so quick to blame gaming when his arguments apply to creative writers, or any common hobby these young criminals have, too? This just further demonstrates how weak his arguments are, which are clearly based on assumptions and opinions rather than facts and solid evidence. The media and anti-game advocates seem to be conjuring up a threat which does not exist.

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: and it's the first time i ever hear someone would've been influenced by the game in question

Lunarbunny: I don't think DOOM did anything for columbine

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: into a Violent action

Atomic|√êdí³: Because its all guns and video games fault that happened, not that fact that his parents where s***ty

otakuman24: Thank you Dan Isett! I like that response

[PF] Ertle: i saw on TV that he was deranged his entire life so i doublt that playing games considerably increased his chances of killing people

Pause: Eizzil: i resent the "creative writer." Even his writings were morbid and macabre

Lunarbunny: I think that they were just enfatuated with murder and that was one place they could pretend to do it

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: the frustration and madness of someone

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: can not be boosted by games

{ONC}Mordakaida: My mom was a single parent for many years.. She did not have to be home every second to teach us. She taught us to respect and honor and obey.. Not jump around with 10 pounds of suger in us

otakuman24: Oh boy, here we go, Jack Thompson came up

Dark Chili: everyone who's shot up a school was already insane or emo or a dumbf***

Kerotan: cho didn't play video games, and even if he did, they were not the cause of his problems, more or less his problems were caused by being a social outcast and having easy access to a gun

♥ wMute ♥: Video Games is like the scapegoat, go-to reason for everything. It's easier to go to a scapegoal that you can rely on than trying to understand the real psychological reasons behind the killings and what the news media did was... they went the easy road.

Lunarbunny: I already mentioned JT about 20 minutes ago

Seraph: Videogames are simply a very very useful scapegoat, they even tried to blame 9/11 on microsoft flight simulator for teaching the terrorists how to fly

Elric: I dont think DOOM did anything too, but still, It was a better theory than the VTech one about Cho

Lunarbunny: true

Trigger: Humans crave an easy explanation for everything, relating everything back to video games is merely the simplest excuse available right now

[HL] Tru7h: I agree, wMMute

EGLN|_Loaded: There has to be an underlying cause for a person to kill people. Video Games can't give people the motivation to do it, it's impossible.

Lunarbunny: just remember the "Columbine Levels" are an urban legend

{SBOD}s ninja: actually atomic this is all over the virgina nut case as far as i can tell cause they got really pissed at the columbine and now this one happens and they think its video games

grammatoneric: I love the myth that video games turn kids into killers, since the fact is violence among kids and young adults has actually decreased significantly since doom came out.

s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: theres a large difference in the types of violence in DOOM, and GTA... DOOM is vs monsters, which is make believe. GTA is much much closer to real life...

Pause: Trigger: not only that, but they seem to jump to conclusions when it comes to things they know nothing about

Peach: Cho had a problem, videogames did not make him violent, he was violent before he found the games

PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: blame everything but capitalism itself for sucking the life out of society and turning it's members into zombies

-|HR|-Mugzzzy: Why not change the gun control laws, which is where the real problem lies instead of trying to censor a medium that can't be adequately censored anyway.

§ TexanMan §: gta is evil

Lunarbunny: GTA is so over the top though

Lunarbunny: not that kids should play it

The Chaos Demon: lol, plug war in main floor

Project X: we shoudl staty a pettoin to stop therm from trying to censor game

[PF] Ertle: you write the papers up

[PF] Ertle: ill be the first to sign it

insertnamehereizzel: Projext X, thats the way to do it

swdro: I don't believe that, Mr Trigger.

Project X: ok i will asap

.:ハルマゲドン:.: I recommend more rooms with more admins and less users, 10 or 20 users per room

Seraph: Lets censor Religion, it causes wars! >_>

insertnamehereizzel: I'll be the first to sign

Seraph: Oh wait, that violates human rights

»ÌщS« 1™: russia545: Why do i have this impusle to kill every living thing?

Trigger: Thats the way it seems to me,they look at all of us as if we live in dungeons and play erotic games all day

»ÌщS« 1™: Wow

[PF] Ertle: farmer

Trigger: and therefore,our opinions are worthless

[PF] Ertle: just taking WoW experiences into real life

.:ハルマゲドン:.: yes

PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: it's just another way of keeping people divided so they won't unite and take real power for themselves

.:ハルマゲドン:.: I agree Seraph

♥ wMute ♥: lol my question was first

{SBOD}s ninja: good Q. too

.:ハルマゲドン:.: btw seraph are from MGS: TUS?!

Shattered Moon: "[16:45] Seraph: Lets censor Religion, it causes wars! >_>" /SIGN

Seraph: No, sorry

Elric: Trigger: Since they use videogames as scapegoats, they'd have nothing to blame if they heard our opinions.....

[PF] Ertle: what an uproar that would cause

s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: i dont think games make kids more or less violent, i think some games, the ones tha need to be regulated, give the kids who are already inherently violent new ideas, or add a little bit of fuel to an already burning fire

Dark Chili: Guns don't kill people, Jesus does

[PF] Ertle: hear hear

§ TexanMan §: BULL crap

insertnamehereizzel: Seraph: Lets censor Religion, it causes wars

But think of the people that beileve in their religion but dont kill others b/c they arent the same reilgion

[HL] Tru7h: I agree with rayne

s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: thx

s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: i dont think ive been heard before now

Elric: I agree with Dark chili.......

Seraph: Thats half the worlds population insert

Trigger: as do i

Seraph: And also my point

Lunarbunny: YES, talk to the children like I keep saying

[PF] Ertle: i find it hard to imagine that most of us whom have been talking have really been heard

insertnamehereizzel: i know.

[PF] Ertle: unless you read like 5000 wpm

s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: lol, but everyone went to the question room

Nodgene: Statistically unlikely, one would assume.

s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: so its slowed down in here

[PF] Ertle: im in 3 of em

[ZiiP]Lazzars: question room is where its at

.:ハルマゲドン:.: religions are the disease of this world, are curse of this world, dig out history and 199% of what happened in entire human history, is about religons

s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: now we can actually be serious

insertnamehereizzel: It was way to fast in here before

Dark Chili: people need to get off the Xbox or the PC and read some f***ing books or get outside

[Xfire]TwiceUzi: Just fast enough :)

[PF] Ertle: sunlight "HSSSSSSSSS"

Trigger: right,but censoring religion would bring an end to the foundation of millions of people, so its out of the question.

Lunarbunny: I read it almost fast enough

Elric: yeah, since everyone is on QA room we can ACTUALLY DEBATE here....

Pause: To that question: I think its the whole scapegoat problem like i said before

Pause: Its the "hip" thing to argue about in congress as of now

Seraph: I'd say I've actually learnt FAR far more about history, mathematics and english from videogames than I did from school

[PF] Ertle: i just maximized the chat box

Elric: agrees with Pause....

PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: oh come on , first person shooters take more skill and strategy than any other genre

Pause: and since people just blame it all on that, thats whats getting regulated currently

[=T=] Moo: Not true

Pause: before it was music

»ÌщS« 1™: Could i get unmuted in the question room please?

Pause: now its video games

[=T=] Moo: RTS games, have a tendacy to require more knoledge than FPS

insertnamehereizzel: If people weren't anti-social and didn't play GTA, CS, etc all the time we wouldnt have had the Columbine killings and VT

[PF] Ertle: its the popular vote in congress

Nodgene: Not CSS, PIZZAP! That's a spam fest!

»ÌщS« 1™: ty

Project X: if u think this is worng to censor vidoe games sign this pettoin i found on the web http://www.petitiononline.com/USgamers/petition.html

♥ wMute ♥: religion is a necessity for teaching morals to young children who wouldn't be able to understand concepts of justice, or other writings from Plato, Aristotle, Locke, Hobbes, Confucious, etc.

Seraph: Trigger, I hope you realise I was being sarcastic

Steel Bear: wow now that the question room is getting all the attention you can actually read.. joy!

[PF] Ertle: yea id imagine that D&D takes more brain power than Doom

[ZiiP]Lazzars: as far as strategy goes that would be a RTs but those sorta of games never get sensored as they are far more impersonal than the idea of being the character doing the killing

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Music doesnt really puts you in face of Interactivity

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Gaming does

insertnamehereizzel: I agree with mutes point

Nodgene: LOL Insertnamehere... You believe Hitler played too much Manhunt? ;)

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: When a rapper says he's going to kill people

PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: people become antisocial and play a lot of GTA and CS becuase the football players and cheerleaders and rich people won't LET THEM become part of normal society

insertnamehereizzel: yup

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: or already did

The Chaos Demon: nobody reads anymore?

insertnamehereizzel: lol

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: you just hear it

s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: i dont think its wrong to censor, just not to censor too much... they can censor drugs, but banning red meat is still way far off

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: in games... you can actually kill people

Trigger: Its going to come to a crux though,just like music did,it got warning labels (wow..so effective). We have yet to see how the gaming scapegoat will pan out, and we have the ability to effect it.

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: the way you want to do it

[PF] Ertle: i read the instruction manuals...

Elric: lol at the D&D comment.....

Nodgene: BIQ, why is that a bad thing?

Seraph: I was not suggesting religion should actually be censored, I was showing how utterly stupid that notion is. The same notion applies to videogames

Kaizer Döuken: I tottaly agree with Yee, but I think he should make heavy campaings to make the parents aware of his points

Kaizer Döuken: instead of creating laws against this games

swdro: A very good question, Otakuman.

Elric: I read lots of books, they make me feel like killing ppl more than videogames.......

[PF] Ertle: all those big words...

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Nodgene it's not a bad thing, it's just the fact that someone asked "why should i be ID'ed to buy games when my little sister can buy the worst type of RAP cd's"

[ZiiP]Lazzars: its just a passing phase, the politicians love to argue about this as it appears they are listening to the qorries of the people when its really just a distraction form real issues

[Xfire]TwiceUzi: I think Yee's points about where parents can get information is good

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: and im saying that games put you in the interactivity

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: of DOING the action

Project X: to stop them form censoring games i ask u all to sign this pettoin

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: while music only let's you hear words

Project X: http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?USgamers

Nodgene: In a movie, for example, you watch people killing each other, and you're COMPLETELY disassociated with it. You watch for pleasure, but in a game, you have a choice, and you have to commit yourself to the act, responsibility is much higher... Game killing is nothing realisitic. I can tell you a story to help illustrate this if you'd like :)

Nodgene: ah, k

Pause: See, the thing is, parents WON'T see this. Honestly, which parent will actually read conversations such as these other than parents who are gamers themselves

Seraph: The interactivity has been researched by the British board of film censorship. They found gamers actually feel more connected to a film or novel than they do to a videogame

[PF] Ertle: project, is that your petition?

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Nodgene good point

[=T=] Moo: Honestly When do you see people driving like in the GTA games, you dont,

s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: violence directed at women, or blacks, or jews, or arabs, or gays, or any other group, needs to be censored... we need more than the very few ratings we have right now, and we need to figure a way to force parents to be a little bit more informed, but i dont think the last one is possible

[PF] Ertle: i watch cops, i see it all the time

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: but yet again... as you said... in music or movies... you can't prevent actions

PizZapOtaMus42 |Nw-: you see them driving like that once they've drunk a half a keg of beer

insertnamehereizzel: Telling kids to read books and go outside won't solve the problem. Why don't the parents plan something family oriented (go out to dinner together, play sports etc.) and ACTUALLY talk with their kids

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: or what's going to happen

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: in games... you have the choice to "NOT" do the action

♥ wMute ♥: People used (and still do) use 'gangsta rap' as a scapegoat to violence, just how video games do. But people don't go on a crusade against the Beatles, or other 'white music' for the same reasons concerning the use of illegal narcotics. The problem with scapegoats is that it villanizes someone or something while letting free others who may be the true causes. In terms of Video Games and Hip Hop, they've been unfairly targetted by those that don't know any better other than following the leader. Real solutions involve actively searching for reason reasons, rather than just believing whatever Jack Thompson tells you.

Seraph: Censoring violence directed at a certain group of people is racism

Lunarbunny: I like the start of Double Agent, where you're there being forced to shoot the innocent civilian

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: interactivity makes the difference

[PF] Ertle: lol

Lunarbunny: I felt remorse there

TDF-TITAN: o

Nodgene: You may have to bludgeon a horde of enemy soldiers to death, but realise that those soldiers are out there with order to slaughter civilians. Something like that.

Lunarbunny: I think a lot of people agree that parents need to talk to their kids more about games

TDF-TITAN: yeah

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: or in games such as GTA

TDF-TITAN: i agree

[ZiiP]Lazzars: parents should talk to their children? like that vid where the mother tried to get her kid of Xbox and hes shouting for chocolate milk?

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: you can actually go down the street and kill a ridiculous ammount of people

[HL] Tru7h: Very true. Parents these days are so disconnected from what their kids do and what games they play.

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: and you can choose not to

Seraph: I thought we were talking about censorship, not xfire.

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Truth, this is not right

[PF] Ertle: o righ, slow typer

Jester: thats a terrible idea, my mother does her homework on the games I buy and thus sometimes I DO purchase M games with her assistance, with a back room added that would hinder my ability to review the game before I purchase it

Lunarbunny: That kid should have lost the privilege to play

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Nowadays parents are more and more concerned about what their kids are in contact with

[Xfire]TwiceUzi: Yes, you can find out information about Xfire by visiting the about section of the website; this debate is about censorship

Trigger: thats really what it comes down to right now, parental intervention. No restriction will really prohibit children from getting hold of violent games, simply doing away with all restriction and letting parents regulate it..seems logical to me

Lunarbunny: If the parents were actually smart they would have taken the power cable away for a few days

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: and what they think about the said thing

[=T=] Moo: Racial, and strerotypeing people PREVENTING actions against people, of certain race or gender to PREVENT racism or Sexism is ACTUALLY PROMOTING it due to the fact that they are saying this and this cant happen to these people. WHen if it happens it should happen to them all or be disregaurded as being SINGLED out

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Because nowadays parents also are people who experienced gaming

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: as i said... most people 35 and under have played video games

Lunarbunny: I want to know what the next era's scapegoat will be

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: so they are more concerned by what their kids are playing

Elric: Actually, my situation is reversed, my parent's don't let me to go out and they allow me to play anything I want....... kind of strange........ f*** parents

[PF] Ertle: ditto

Lunarbunny: What I'm gonna see my peers blaming their kids behavior on

Seraph: I say children learn a lot from games. For example, Call of duty, MOH and other WW2 games teach children not only important historical facts, but teach them to admire heroism and comeradship

.:ハルマゲドン:.: todays problem is not the video games, it's lack of responsibility of parents, they're working too much and they're forggetting tthat their children need to learn maners and responibility

EGLN|_Loaded: @ Sereph Agreed

§ TexanMan §: what about mods which add features like sex?

[ZiiP]Lazzars: the issue will work itself out once the gamers now become parents as they will know whats going to have an effect

§ TexanMan §: to a game

[PF] Ertle: my parents wouldnt let me go to a sleepover with my friend who lives 5 minutes down the road but i play with him online every day

Pause: Seraph: Not to mention playing Battlefield 1942 helped me learn key names to battles during WW2 haha

Lunarbunny: Mods should not be considered in the ratings

insertnamehereizzel: Lazzars has got a point, children don't want to do anything with their parents. PARENTS MUST put their kids into a sporting camp or social activity so THE CHILD DOES NOT BECOME TOO ANTI-SOCIAL... Once kids reach a certain point of anti-socialty they DON'T DO ANYTHING

Master Kim: Agreed.

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: TexanMan ... sadly... 3rd party additions to a game

[HL] Tru7h: What *chinese symbols* said is pretty much what I meant.

♥ wMute ♥: Watching a movie about a serial killer doesn't make you a serial killer; despite all the techniques used by a director to put you in the mindset of a serial killer in a movie, people make a separation between what happens on screen and themselves. That same separation takes place in Video Games and People, despite whatever immersion used by developpers to put you in that role. The problem with censors is that they'd underestimate the logic and reasoning capacity of children.

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: can not be controlled as of yet

Lunarbunny: that's player created content and was not sanctioned by the developer

EGLN|_Loaded: Mods are independently made, and must be independently downloaded. As they don't come with the game in question, they shouldn't be included in the rating.

Seraph: Hot coffee was a mod. People forget that

Trigger: I feel dev's as exempt from all blame relating to mods. Their only involvement was the release of the tool etc, not the content of the mod itself.

Lunarbunny: now, if the developer went ahead and sanctioned it, then there might be an issue

[HL] Tru7h: Yeah

Dark Chili: you can mod anything to put boobs into it

[HL] Tru7h: Although, in the PS2 version I believe there was a cheat code to access it

Dark Chili: why not ban all games people can open up?

Kaizer Döuken: I believe so, with even password for the paerent to release it

[ZiiP]Lazzars: player created content shouldn't have any bearing on ratings as any modder could make any game into hardcore porn if they wanted too

[PF] Ertle: but since it uses the original games engine they consider it part of the original game

[HL] Tru7h: Which would count it as part of the game

Seraph: No, that was a rumour.

[PF] Ertle: like CSS is based of the HL2 engine

Seraph: It required lines and lines of code to get to

s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: omg, hes not adressing the question, he just keep saying the same responses

EGLN|_Loaded: Lol

[PF] Ertle: lol

EGLN|_Loaded: He's a senator, it's what they do.

s*c ! kingbob/Rayne: hes said that about parents 890 times

Dark Chili: did he just say Vista was a major platform?.... WHAT A N00B!!!

Seraph: Ahaha Agreed loaded

Pause: haha, agreed to the former statement.

Kaizer Döuken: agree, that is why I say he should do heavy campaings to aware people of it

Jester: Hal, I own a Wii, it is not readilyh apparent that such tools exist, so I dont know that that is a valid argument

Nodgene: Perhaps direct interaction is a form of learning? You can choose to go and blow up a child, but you may feel grossly sad after you do it in the virtual world. It'll be a good lesson for yourself. You can't experiment with these things in real life...

[HL] Tru7h: I read once that they changed Oblivion to M because a hacker made a nude-mod with an un-used nipple texture.

[ZiiP]Lazzars: hes running out of ammo so hes repeating the same stuff over and over

Jester: thanks alot for your time guys!

Trigger: Jester: You can regulate web content with it I believe,idk about other regulation

Pause: Thanks for the great discussion guys

insertnamehereizzel: Parents need to do more. My neighbor and his kid box together. It is something they both enjoy and his kid plays GTA but IS NOT anti-social

Kaizer Döuken: There are more XP users than Vista...

[ZiiP]Lazzars: woot, that was fun

Elric: it was cool, i like debating

swdro: I don't think I'm ready to quit.

[HL] Tru7h: It's over? :/

Trigger: Thanks everyone,good time.

insertnamehereizzel: First debate ive ever had

Lunarbunny: I'm glad that Yee actually participated however

Lunarbunny: Jack Thompson has ingored all invitations for debate

EGLN|_Loaded: Good Debate guys!

Seraph: I can't say I agreed too much with yee, but you have to respect his opinion

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: Extremely good debate

-»)B.I.QcW(«-[TTHS]: by far the best i've seen so far

{SBOD}s ninja: bye bye people