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Xfire Debate Club 9th Meeting: Women and Gaming
October 25th, 2007 (Open Debate - Xfire Users)
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: whats up everyone
Jiffy_No0b: hello
[NBK]Raccoon: hi
Xornado: hi
[Xfire-TTHS] Paddy: hi all
[cAs][TTHS]MMOaddict: hey
SpartanChick316: how is every ones day going?
=KoF=Joker: hay guise
=KoF=Joker: decent
Xornado: hi
[cAs][TTHS]MMOaddict: what debate is this about again?
[Xfire-TTHS] Paddy: v well
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: yo
Nodgene: view debateox's profile
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: arggg so tired, this debate better be worth it >:|
[cAs][TTHS]MMOaddict: ok ty
[Xfire-TTHS] Paddy: its about hot girls playing PC :O
=KoF=Joker: I asked some chick to a dance and she said no so im pretty bummed, but other then that days been fine
=KoF=Joker: lol
Celeste: Ill give you cookies if that helps the worth :p
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Hah, MY EX GIRLFRIEND ISN'T HERE.
SnoWytch: neither is my ex husband
=KoF=Joker: lmao
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: is he a hot girl
SpartanChick316: ?
Celeste: 'is he a hot girl' XD
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: well yeah i mean
Xornado: yea is she hot?
Nodgene: How many of the general xfire public here are actually girls? :\\
[Xfire] SDaria: Hey guys. Don't forget that when the debat starts this room will be for DEBATING only. No more hot girl chatter. =oP
SaLS111: : )
SnoWytch: *raises hand*
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: this debate is about hot girls playing games and she says "my ex husband isn't here"
geekluv: probably more than you think
[NBK]Raccoon: I am
=KoF=Joker: D:
Badazz: I am a girl
geekluv: it's not about hot girls playing games
[xfire] Spencer: That goes for hot guys, also.
[Xfire-TTHS] Paddy: lol
SnoWytch: i was responding to the ex gf not being here :D
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: For 10 bucks i'm a girl.
[xfire] Spencer: Specifically me.
[Xfire-TTHS] Paddy: when dose this start i have work in the morning?
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: my ex gf was a hot gamer girl
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: she played DDR with me all the time
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: and BF2
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: ...and SSBM
[NBK]Raccoon: I play UT
Nodgene: 4 xfire girls and counting.... Interesting.
=KoF=Joker: hot girls that play videogames dont eist
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: god i'm such a loser.
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: god i'm a loser.
SpartanChick316: souldnt most of this talk be in unofficial chatter
Xornado: my girl here is playing WOW with me:D:D
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: woah woah spam sorry
Celeste: Im not so much of a 'hot' girl but my girlfriend is ^^
≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: DOOOOOD GIRLZ! NO WAIII THEY IZ LEGEND!!!!
Celeste: But what do looks have to do with anything :p
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: Welcome to 9th meeting of the Xfire Debate Club!
We are very excited to have you all with us today!
Remember, Xfire users should be debating the topics in the Open Debate Room - The Open Debate Room is not for Spam. It will be moderated strictly. User representing themselves intelligently will be invited into the Xfire Debate Club Clan: The Two Handed Sword. Invites will be sent out within a week after the Debate. Invites will be scarce.
Basic chatting should go in Unofficial Chatter.
Q&A in the last 15 minutes will go in the Question Room (room invites for Question Room will go out later)
[NBK]Raccoon: but what does "hot" have to do with anything?
[Xfire-TTHS] Paddy: Girls are hot
=KoF=Joker: someone beinpg [hot is a opinion
[xfire] Spencer: Nothing, if you're blind.
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: ^^
Xornado: yea
[Xfire] SDaria: ALRIGHT EVERYONE THE DEBATE HAS STARTED. UNOFFICIAL CHATTER SHOULD BE MOVED TO THE UNOFFICIAL CHATTER ROOM. NO SPAMMING.
Xornado: ok i understand:)
Badazz: OK
Celeste: Define 'unofficial chatter' for me please.
[Xfire-TTHS] Paddy: ten four
SpartanChick316: it is the other chat room
Xornado: what chatroom?
geekluv: Unofficial Chatter...that's the general chat room
[xfire] Spencer: Unofficial chat is for chat that isn't about the debate.
Xornado: yea,i know
SpartanChick316: you should have ben invited into 3 chat rooms
Celeste: Yes my bad, I didnt remember that it was a chat room name lol.
Badazz: Welcome to Xfire all you higher up women in the Industry..*claps
SpartanChick316: well im not really any where yet >_>
SpartanChick316: college WOO
Badazz: more applause
Badazz: haha
Xornado: how many girls are here using xfire,they said about 20% i think
Xornado: but i dontknow really
Badazz: I am an xfire user
SpartanChick316: i am
[NBK]Raccoon: as am I
Badazz: and I use all the other stuff too, I am a community developer
[Xfire-TTHS] Paddy: :O
Kash: I think we all are!
geekluv: same here
☭ wMute ☭: My first impression on female gamers on xfire is that most are probobly WoW players.
Badazz: Hi apocalyptica!!!
[NBK]Raccoon: pffft
=KoF=Joker: true dat
[NBK]Raccoon: I play UT
Badazz: no WOW here.
Badazz: FPS
Celeste: I am female and it would be sort of strange for males to be in here... in my opinion :p
SnoWytch: I am a woman gamer, been so for 30 years :D
Badazz: mainly and puzzles
Kash: lol, well that's better than thinking we all play dogs on a pink ds
SnoWytch: WoW is a late addition
Xornado: this debate is not about wowXD
Badazz: Hi Robin!
Badazz: Hello Destructable Colette!
pink <3: from what i can see, some girl do like fps games.. more than rpg such as wow..
[NBK]Raccoon: agreed
Celeste: WoW certainly is not the first or main area of female gamers :p
shoopuf: Hadn't been to pixeltamer.net before, but this is intriguing, since I love easily accessible games and have played Dofus in my browser. It's convenient.
Celeste: Helen is a feminist >:3
☭ wMute ☭: From a male perspective, I'm talking about first impressions. As in, from a male gamer who has "no clue" what the statistics are concerning what female gamers play.
Badazz: I am a gramma that likes to shoot stuff
pink <3: but the trouble is that, the majority of the female gaming do get harassed alot
Kash: I prefer games that require problem solving and strategy over mindless destruction
pink <3: gamers*
shoopuf: Female gamers play...games!
radu12345: What's this for?
SpartanChick316: yeah i get alot of like sexist ppl online
shoopuf: Really, we're not aliens.
Celeste: Sexual harassment is ridiculous -.-
Badazz: I like the unique social arrangements
[NBK]Raccoon: no one knew I was female until I told them
radu12345: Sorry, may I ask what this is?
Kash: not that mindless destruction is always a bad thing - it's just better if yiou planned it to be *really* destructive
Badazz: HI Lesley
mclazyj: I know that when I go into a game playing as a female character, I get swamped with friend requests two minutes in
SpartanChick316: it is for the women debate
SpartanChick316: thingy
Celeste: radu this is a chat room for women and gaming debate.
☭ wMute ☭: I play a lot of CSS, TF2 and whenever a female speaks up on voice comms, the immediate reaction from a lot of gaming guys is "Oooh a girl"
radu12345: Eww...
radu12345: I'm not a woman.
[NBK]Raccoon: lol, yep
SpartanChick316: lol
mclazyj: Exactly
SpartanChick316: not every one is >>
shoopuf: It's nice to see the journalists as well as developers on here today. Shows that we really are all over the industry.
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: I can be a woman if you want me to.
Celeste: scary ^
radu12345: Goodbye.
Badazz: I get to tell the FPSers that they got owned by a Gramma!
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: just kidding?
radu12345: I've got to go to bed.
mclazyj: I feel that it does not help that women get portrayed as sculpted godesses in games either
SpartanChick316: yeah
SnoWytch: When it is found out I am a girl, I have had every reaction in mmo's from the mildly ammusing "r u hawt" the the very scary emote's of being raped
☭ wMute ☭: lol, Pause does bring up a valid point. Outside of voice communication, gender and sex is not an immediate issue.
Celeste: Pause you wouldnt be the first shim :P
Badazz: but I also play with much of my family members... so I dont feel alone
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: mclazy: actually thats extremely hilarious, i hope we cover that because honestly that is all women are portrayed as
Kash: goddesses, are fine, large breasted party girls less so :P
[Xfire] SDaria: ***** FIRST QUESTION *****
[uwe]helen kennedy: Okay as a way of kicking things off... what are the specific challenges you have faced as a player of games and as a professional?
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Alyx is probably one of my favorite female characters in a game where the chick isn't painted as OMFG HOTNESS
Badazz: when I first started in Moderating in a community mostly male, I had run ins with being a woman and not taken seriously
mclazyj: Well that is what I mean Kash, women with double d cups and 24" waists seem to be the too often norm
Celeste: Men are a huge problem and can actually infringe on my gaming. Its almost as if I have to hide my gender inorder for them to stop sexually harassing me.
SnoWytch: agreed celeste
mclazyj: how about more strong female leads like Kate Walker in Syberia or April Ryan in The Longest Journey
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Celeste: that name of yours doesn't help with that xD But on topic, i've found alot of my friends doing that
Badazz: shoudl we answer in here or in FIRST room?
[NBK]Raccoon: I play for a clan, which offers me some protection
Kash: That's funny, I don't think I have ever been harrassed because of my genderin game
lunaria42: I play mostly console games, so I have not run into any harrasment problems online
Celeste: Also I find that you get called male if you refuse to validate your gender to them, via webcam, mic, e-pic... w/e
SpartanChick316: alot of guys i have played with over xboxlive on halo3 have not ben the kindest, now i just take to muten and given them bad reviews
[NBK]Raccoon: agreed
☭ wMute ☭: Again speaking from a male perspective, I can't possibly give my experience on what kind of challenges a girl might get, or even guess what one faces. I do know that when I play a female in a game like Guild Wars, or even something like Freestyle Street Basketball, the common misconception among many guys is that: Girl character/avatar = girl behind the keyboard, which i kinda scary IMO.
SnoWytch: Why should our name matter? We shoudnt have to hide, nor be made to feel that we should.
shoopuf: It's kind of funny because I grew up playing games and never felt 'different' for it. The only thing I suppose is when it comes to hiring.
≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: It gets annoying honestly when I go into a game and then a girl enters and pretty much everyone in the server starts in like OMG IS THAT A REAL GIRL?!?!?!?!? And then just berates her to no end. It is like wow a girl.... just play the game.
Badazz: slow down
SpartanChick316: woa
Nodgene: Well surely the issue of the unrealistic representation of women is more a social problem than a GAMING issue...
SpartanChick316: i cant read that fast >>
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: SnoWytch: i said that because she says she has to hide her gender, so the name Celeste doesn't help in hiding it haha
mclazyj: now that may be trye nodgene
Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: I think some men feel that the gaming world is for masculine persons while it really is for both sexes..........their are some women that do just as good or even a bette job than men in either the creation of or playing of video games.
mclazyj: but it does not help
[Xfire] SDaria: ***** NEXT QUESTION *****
[uwe]helen kennedy: Great. Do you think that most women are taken seriously as players? and if not why not? is this true of women who play games competitively?
shoopuf: I don't actively advertise my gender in games, but I don't hide it either. There's always the ignore feature if necessary.
Celeste: I dont really hide :P Im just saying I would have too to avoid sexual harassment XD
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: helen kennedy: from my experience, no
☭ wMute ☭: Agreed, Nodgene. Female gamers don't need to do much. It's many male gamers who have the adjustments to make.
Täring: girls are not taken serius, beacause, males think they cant play as good as them
≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: Not alot of girls are taken seriously because it is a male dominated society so of course no one sees them as being top players in games.
[NBK]Raccoon: I think females have to prove themselves a bit more then men'
Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: I think they are not but they should be......
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Yeah, males tend to think that females are on a lower level in gaming which isn't true in most cases
Celeste: but the reason for some of the problems is that the opposite gender actually poses as female gamers for personal gain...
shoopuf: I think we're 'taken seriously' if we demonstrate our interest and knowledge, but often people judge before they actually listen to us.
Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: yes they do have to prove them selves more than guys
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Celeste: the wonders of the internet :D
Badazz: I started with a viscious name so that they would take me serious, I got mistaken as a guy anyway forever in the clan I am in
☭ wMute ☭: I've been in Guild vs guild matches in Guild wars, and the one female we had in our crew was like any other guy. It was a non-issue. Then again, a lot of us knew each other in real life. For strangers on the internet, it might have more a factor on one's perspective on the female gamer's overall skill.
geekluv: women should never have to "prove" themselves in gaming..unless maybe they're doing it competatively
mclazyj: I think that the women that go into games like Counterstrike and the like tend to get ignored as having skills, because males just figure there is no way a girl would be into a game that hardcore
shoopuf: When it comes to competitive gaming, I still think that a lot of people don't like seeing women be competitive in anything, especially against men, so it's lagging behind there. Changing slowly, especially with some more coed teams out there.
mclazyj: The look at the female gamer as one who plays on Pogo or the Sims
Celeste: If I wasnt already lesbian.. video games would of pushed me to be one :p
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: mclazy: or they just think "oh my god its a girl let me be nice and suck up and maybe she'll talk to me"
mclazyj: and it is a terrible stereotype
Nodgene: In my gaming circle this isn't such an issue, for one when my good friend got owned by a girl in another friend's CS clan he was astounded how good she was, rather than saying anything bad about it. It seems to be more of a "wow, you're good." than "wow, you can play a game!". This seems especially true as most guys I know my age are just desperate for women, so the subconcious urge to compliment and flirt just adds to it I guess.
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: exactly
☭ wMute ☭: I see gaming like golf. there shouldn't be differences between male or female, since it's based more on skill rather than physical prowess
Kash: I think you've hit it on the head wMute, if you play with friends they accept you as a friend, then start to see you as a player
Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: yeh badazz is a kinda guy name.....but i could go with a name like "double d's" and win in games and make people ....main;y guys" feel bad
shoopuf: But often people think the Frag Dolls, for example, are just eye candy, but they do have to be able to play games. The sponsorship they have is another debate entirely though
Kash: if you play with straingers they have nothing to go on, so they make up their own stereotype
mclazyj: I have a friend that is a female and plays competitvely and I have great DOA matches with her online
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: i've known people on my ventrilo where if i invite a friend of mine who happens to be a girl gamer in, the guys would like, stumble on their words and be like "IS SHE SERIOUSLY GONNA PLAY WITH US BUT SHE'S A GIRL OH GOD SHE'S GOOD"
≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: Sorry to pick on you Celeste, but that is one of the major things that guys think about female gamers.... They are either overweight and grotesque or they are lesbians.
mclazyj: but at soon as a third party comes in the room, it becomes invites to video chat hell
Nakashige H2O: is atha twin hear
SnoWytch: I do avoid all voice chat, it causes to many problems
Badazz: i went by badazzbiotch
pink <3: i guess people view online gaming as being like football, male only.. but infact girls can and will achieve more goals than men can, seriously lol
[NBK]Raccoon: "They are either overweight and grotesque or they are lesbians"....please
Celeste: Jack, dont get me started on what its like to be a lesbian woman gamer! XD I'll never shhh :p
Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: GETTING BEAT BY A GIRL TO MOST GUYS IS A KINDA PUT DOWN....BUT THEY ARE JUST AS EQUAL AS WE GUYS ARE
Kash: But, Jack, if they were would it matter?
☭ wMute ☭: What kind of problems, SnoWytch?
Badazz: i figured tehy would know i was a badazz female
mclazyj: I have no problem being beaten by a girl. Especially if she has skills
shoopuf: Definitely, there's this standard of looks that no one holds male gamers to. But at the same time I've seen other female gamers criticize the ones who decide to game in makeup, so it's kind of a damned if you do/don't situation
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: I think that the girl gamer stereotypes and hindrances are stronger on the internet than in person honestly, anyone agree?
Celeste: In games, I kill men mroe then they kill me >:3
≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: No but I am saying that is preconceived notion people have.
mclazyj: I am more upset when I get beat by someone who has lesser skills than I
Kash: who cares about your weight, your looks, your sexual preference, none of that affects your ability to play
SnoWytch: Mostly begin harrassed, chat always seems to turn to a sexual nature on voice when I enter. All I want to talk about is games!
mclazyj: Yeah
[Xfire] SDaria: *****SUB QUESTION*****
[uwe]helen kennedy: Apocalyptica & others.. what are the elements of 'culture' are particularly problematic?
[NBK]Raccoon: redvblue
mclazyj: But then again Pause, it is easier to be someone else online
Nakashige H2O: twin
mclazyj: if you are overweight you can be as skinny as you want to be online
Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: Badazz i have no prob gettin owned by a female player I just see it as getting own...but this rarely happens :)
Celeste: Apocalyptica... if you are TOO good, you get called a guy lol
mclazyj: or as fit
mclazyj: as you would like to be
☭ wMute ☭: One element in real sports to look at when talking about this is the famous tennis match between Billie Jean King against John mcEnroe. Or I think it was those two. I think they played a real match, rather than one 'for fun' like the ones they have with Anna K and whatshisname
Nodgene: The fact the internet is full of morons most likely. Other than that. *shrugs* I don't think there are any social faux pas or barriers which really prevent women from gaming or developing games on any level.
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: but thats what i mean, on the internet for some reason there's more of the stereotypes going on, while if you're there in person all that stuff goes away and people are equals (at least from my experience)
[NBK]Raccoon: agreed
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: nodgene: not prevent gaming, thats not what i meant, i meant stuff like having to "prove" themselves
Nodgene: Their rarity probabaly adds to their value.
Nodgene: I don't think so
geekluv: the internet provides some form of anonymouty, I think that's why it's worse
shoopuf: It is somewhat easier to do that over the internet because of the anonymity factor. It lowers people's inhibitions.
Badazz: Talking the same language. Religious beliefs and cultural beliefs have affected the way my differnt Moderators on my forums interpret what they are to enforce on the forums and in game....
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: these days not so much honestly, i've seen quite a few gamer girls "spawn" (lol) in the past few years
Nodgene: If you kill someone cleanly it doesn't matter if you're black or white, girl or boy. It matters that you do.
Nakashige H2O: athena twin hey
Kash: If I do get flak in game, it's from kids who just don't have the social skills, that probably has something to do with the stereotyping, they know no better
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: oh hey look her question ties into my statement WOOO
[Xfire] SDaria: ***** NEXT QUESTION*****
[uwe]helen kennedy: What differences are there in the treatment and representation of women between an 'offline' community and culture and that which exists online?
mclazyj: Could it be that if games online were more segmented by age, this issue would be less of a problem
≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: And that is where the preconceived notions of people comes from in part is that anonymity.
☭ wMute ☭: One cultural problem, I think, is the maturity of male gamers and their perspectives on females. Take for example, a typical CSS game where sexist jokes immediately pop up when hearing a girl on Comms. The same occurs when a black guy speaks up on Comms. Because a lot of PC gamers are white male 15-24 year old immature people, anyone outside of this demographic seems to get antagonized because of the power of the intrnet's anonymity. In other words, you can talk smack and not face physical consequences
shoopuf: No, because physical age doesn't determine maturity.
Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: And being a female player ain't all bad cuss once you prove your selves some moderators and admins ...people with power let u get away with some things a little more
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: also they're free to make statements like "omg you're obese and lesbian" because there's no reprocutions, while if they did that IRL they'd probably get their ass beat.
Nodgene: It's probabaly relative. A girl comes into a chat, guys say "SHIT, IT'S A GIRL!" A girl walks past a group of guys, they say "SHIT, LOOK AT THAT GIRL!". I don't see it as that disproportionate.
Celeste: Bom Chick thats a really bad thing lol
[NBK]Raccoon: get away with what?
Nodgene: The problem is the morons of the internet don't need to be quiet about it.
shoopuf: But that, jewish123, plays right into the stereotype that female gamers 'want' something or expect something for being female.
Kash: Mclasy, I play GW in a mature gamers guild, and I find there is far less of an issue then, than if I play in a random team
mclazyj: Does anyone remember the woman that wanted armor for her horse or something to that nature and offered her services to a WOW player to get it
mclazyj: and she went through with it
mclazyj: how does that affect women gamers that want to be treated as equals
[NBK]Raccoon: men dont d such things?
pink <3: im guessing that there are less young female gamers is because the parents may fear for their own daughters safety and well being, and other issues.. but then again it could be the same as chatrooms ;p
Täring: it would be nice, if they were treated as equals...
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: I think more women should jump into the whole video gaming scene, its just most girls find gaming to be a "guy thing" so they don't touch it. My sister almost became a gamer but she held onto the stereotype that gaming was for loser guys
[NBK]Raccoon: of course they do, but noone cares
Celeste: Should I have to be ashamed of my birthright to play a videogame?
Täring: nop
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: NO ITS IN THE BILL OF RIGHTS OBVIOUSLY
SnoWytch: But most women I know don't act that way, mclazyj. I do see many men posing as women in mmo's doing things like that, cyber and what not
[Xfire] Klaak: i agree completely, pink
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: i mean come on.
Nodgene: I've read of a guy on wow who played obvious idiots into thinking he was their virtual girlfriends (getting virtual benefits from it), then scaring them off in imaginative ways when they demanded cybering. I doubt girls overall want to sell themselves online any more than they do in real life.
Täring: i think its great to have female gamers
shoopuf: There was actually an article about that the other day on Gamasutra, qok. Basically, girls are less encouraged to play games to a degree but boys are not.
mclazyj: I think some of it is because men look at games as an escape from their day
≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: Heck no! Playing games on your birthday is l33t! I do it too. LOL
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Nodgene: that happens so much its not even funny
mclazyj: when a woman gets involved, it is like they are invading the mans leisure space
mclazyj: their private hobby
Badazz: what is the trick to keeping up with three windows?
mclazyj: I was like that at first when my wife got into gaming
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: get more eyes
☭ wMute ☭: I think there's also an issue with North American society versus others. Take Japan for instance, the presence of female gamers have definately shaped the way developpers design game characters: Final Fantasy, etc etc. Compare that to american-made gamers, particularly FPSs, and you see typical white, buff, action hero types.
mclazyj: but I have been more accepting
[Xfire-TTHS] Debateox: Everyone, please do not send instant messages to the panelists. You are interrupting the debate.
shoopuf: But gaming doesn't have a gender. It's not a "man's" space.
Celeste: I feel that SOME women actually abuse their feminity to gain power, free items, break rules and take advantage of other players. But some of these online women can actually be male... posing as female :P
Kash: That's why me and himself have our own gaming rooms, and our own 360s :P
mclazyj: no, but it was for a long time considered a male hobby
mclazyj: I don't say that to be mean
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Kash: thats not cool, if i lived with my gamer gf i'd like to play in the same room on the same console haha
shoopuf: There have always been female gamers though
Nakashige H2O: athena how many people do we have in halo 3 in h2o and pms
Nodgene: But Mute... American "culture" has a host of problems associated with it, it's not JUST something sexist.
☭ wMute ☭: Gaming shouldn't have a gender and naturally, it shouldnt be men only. But it's people's perceptions that have made it so.
shoopuf: I've been playing for 25 years myself.
Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: I AGREE 100% some women use their feminity to get ahead but.....it main;y only works with persons who see them as different
Kash: lol pause, if we did that, we'd have split up years ago, I'm a bad loser
≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: Yea that is true alot of people pose as female characters to get their way and gain an advantage... I know my brother does that in the game he plays called Tibia.... He has a female character only to gain items from guys.
mclazyj: Don't get me wrong, I don't think that way, but I am thinking that it may have been looked at that way
Badazz: I come off with motherly ness
Celeste: Gender is important for me, as this may sound harsh... but it helps me know what to expect from that person or person(s)
mclazyj: In single player games where a female character is an option I tend to use the female character
Badazz: it isnt fake
mclazyj: it just seems to be a more fulfilling option
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: I think the stereotypes get pushed by developers, i mean "sex sells" so we sell sexy women stereotypes, guys buy into it and women stay away
mclazyj: sometimes because I thiink the storyline is developed differently
janey: I prefer to play as a female character as well... although not all games offer this
[MeeF] CyAn: Yum, not all women stay away though ;)
[NBK]Raccoon: :)
mclazyj: Fallout is a good example, because you could use your looks as an option to get out of situations
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: and it benefits the companies since in most cases their audience is male, however there is a change going on obviously, and its for the better
Nodgene: Celeste, how do you mean? I understand that psychologically, women and "wired" different to men. You mean something along the lines of behavioural abilities and expectations?
Nodgene: are*(
shoopuf: It doesn't bother me too much if a woman is designed to look like a fantasy, because a lot of male characters are too. It's overdone sometimes though.
Kash: I always play females, because I relate to them better, all my GW characters are tiny women who kick ass - like me lol
Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: hoah
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Kash: I play female in most online games because i can't stand looking at a guy for hours on end.
≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: But on the flipside of that games such as Tomb Raider, you are a female character with no option for a male counter-part. And the females are all portrayed as stereotypical large-breasted, tiny waste females.
lunaria42: Has anyone played Super Princess Peach, I thougth that it would be a fun game, but I think it is actually kind of demeaning to women.
Nodgene: me too pause!
Kash: lol, that's fair enough, neither can I
Celeste: Nodgene more as... the past few years I have stopped becoming friends with male gamers as they have a tendency to hit on me... say sexual slander or typical racial slurs that I could care little for...
≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: I haven't seen a fat chick in a video game....
{J1}: thats not right, men should not do that
{J1}: because ur a girl
Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: But most game developers in physical...rough games use male characters because I think they see women as physically weak and emotionally spineless
pink <3: i feel that "fat chicks" is abit off topic ;)
{J1}: it is
☭ wMute ☭: I think there's definately an issue in terms of this generation's developpers. I think game makers are "maturing" to something more sophisticated than simply bland and vanilla characters. Take Rockstar Games. They get a lot of slack for violence, but they make very interesting stuff, character-wise, in terms of GTA and Bully where they'll go ahead and make stars out of people outside the common demographic of gamers. Probobly won't be long until a Female is the lead in a GTA game
Nodgene: should you be asking "are you in a relationship"? more than "are you male"? then? Men are far less likely to hit on you if they have someone special and are not desperate. :)
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Come on, the public asks for it: Make a kickass FPS with a female character that isn't "omg boobies and 24" waist line so hawt lara croft"
Kash: You see I don't mind ideal figures - but the "bounce" physics in DOA is just silly - some teenage boys are growing up very confused
Celeste: I like pink ... someone should tell Apocalyptica :P
≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: lol @ pink
pink <3: lol
≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: I didn't mean it as physical features but I meant it as the characters designed in games.
|oNu| sAviOr: pink pwns
Celeste: Kash: To much bounce is to much... :P
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: haha pink gaming systems, those are hilarious
{J1}: sometimes doa does take it too far
[NBK]Raccoon: agreed
Celeste: I have a pink Nintendo DS!
shoopuf: I like pink gaming systems. But I also have a pink coat. Doesn't bother me.
Kash: it's when they bounce in opposite directions...
SnoWytch: I don't like pink
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Has anyone played Granado Espada? the game is themed around the baroque era, yet all the women walk around exposing EVERYTHING.
SnoWytch: I prefer black
≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: I have a pink slvr and a pink razr!
≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: lol
Badazz: wait, are we gonna be on topic in here?
[MeeF] CyAn: Ohhh! I love Granado Espada
Badazz: I am trying to keep up
janey: just because something is pink doesnt make it girly
Badazz: and then we go pink?
lunaria42: I guess I have not had that many bad experiences as a female gamer. When I was younger I was one of few female gamers at my school, but now I know many femalle gamers.
{J1}: lol
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: the game is sick but god its so demeaning to women.
pink <3: i love pink
{J1}: so much talk!!!
Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: THE BOUNCE IS THERE FOR A REASON....I DON'T WANNA Sound mean or sexist but......you gotta admit SEX SELLS
Celeste: Wow Barbie... keep that away from me XD
Kash: I used to ride a pink motorbike - noone would ever nick it
{J1}: wel....
Melanie: Actually, there's a lot of guys starting with the pink, I mean, just look at all the pink shirts around you.
[Xfire] SDaria: *****SUB QUESTION******
[uwe]helen kennedy: Why do you like pink games systems - is that different to the whole pink games nonsense that emerged after the success of Barbie Fashion Designer?
SnoWytch: Yes sex does sell, it's a shame it is that way
{J1}: i guess it gets some buys for that reason
shoopuf: That's a really good point. The female as RPG white mage, etc. The next Final Fantasy game looks to change that with Lightning though
☭ wMute ☭: DOA is culture-related. Japanese seem to like their bouncing boobs, but I don't think it's anywhere close to the sex-related marketing of a lot of american-made RPGs where you always seem some female in skimpy metallic armor. Then again, every culture seems to have some way of objectifying women in their own way.
Nodgene: I think the making unrealistic female characters in games may have a sublte positive effect... In Guild Wars for example - women don't need muscles to do the same as burly male characters... Think about it.
Celeste: Pink happens to be my favorite color... so of course I'd like pink game systems ^^
Badazz: ok pink is great.. but it does lend to trying TOO hard to prove women game
Badazz: and nobody in game is gonna see it anyway
shoopuf: It's just a color option.
lunaria42: I like pink, but I prefer my systems to be black, silver, or white
janey: it's just a gimic
☭ wMute ☭: I think a lot of that perception, Nodgene, comes from the Gen 13 Comics, where Caitlyn Fairchild, the muscleperson on the team, was fairly skimpy and thin
Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: Yeh ...its just a color
Kash: I do find it a bit patronising when game companies decide to attract women so release pink things and games with puppies
Melanie: I don't really like pink, I prefer black, so..
shoopuf: If it sells, of course the companies will see it
Celeste: there are different kinds of girls :P, some like pink some like green... some like black or blue XD
≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: Eh pink is just another color... people just associate it with females. I wear pink dress shirts and button ups all the time...
SnoWytch: I think I avoid pink game systems because I do feel I need to compete with men, and I want to do so on their level.
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: haha, pink is a funny color, put it anywhere and its like "WOMEN ONLY SEE THIS GAME ITS PINK ONLY GIRLS PLAY IT"
shoopuf: Ugh, the Imagine games.
Nodgene: Surely colour preferance is a result of culture and personal exposure to specific concepts, rather than a gender issue? The association of pink = good for girls seems to be the resultof barby. I get no end of laughs directed at me for wearing a pink shirt and being male.
lunaria42: I can't stand all of those dogz, kittenz, horsez games
Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: lol
janey: the pink DS just looks tacky/cheap IMO
{J1}: lol
☭ wMute ☭: Look back on the 80s, the 'strongwomen warriors' were characters like Red Sonia and Bridget Nielson type amazons
shoopuf: So why can't you "compete with men" with a pink console? does it kill your morale somehow?
{J1}: !!!
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: its all about that black DS! that thing looks sick
{J1}: what?
Täring: Gta: Vice City has pink box, does it mean that it is only for women?
Kash: throwing a ball for a virtual cat is not nearly as fun as killing virtual things...
Täring: i dont think so
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: I think its funnier to kick ass with a pink console as a girl. Its like "Hey gaiz i shop at abercrombie and i'm so preppy and HO BITCH I JUST KICKED YOUR ASS IN HALO"
{J1}: men have been battling agaisnt girls for long time
Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: black / pink it really shouldn't matter...what should matter is who is behind the controlls
SnoWytch: Yes exactly shoopuf.
☭ wMute ☭: Vice City and pink is more 80s related, since it was a popular color in the overall 80s palette
shoopuf: I don't like the Imagine series because they make it seem like 'catering to girls' involves cuteness and babies and fashion design . I started playing games in the early 80s. I just played what I was interested in.
Celeste: Halo on a DS? HEY I want a female master chief? plz?
{J1}: lol
Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: R U MENTAL......
Badazz: i think true personality comes thru in gaming and online period
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: celeste: play DOA on x360, everytime i see that spartan i think its a girl.
Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: JOHAN 117?
Badazz: color no color, girl boy or religious or not
shoopuf: The surveys and market research Ubisoft did just seems incomplete. Like they said that girls never said anything about wanting to be police officers, but obviously it wasn't suggested TO them either.
{J1}: lol
Celeste: I played soul calibur 2...
☭ wMute ☭: It's the Metroid effect, Pause
{J1}: JANE117
Celeste: Sophitia is cool :P
Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: LOL\\
{J1}: i like soul caliber
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: exactly mute, regardless of where it comes from though, it works.
[Xfire] SDaria: ***** NEXT QUESTION *****
[13:35] [uwe]helen kennedy: Why do you think the marketing and advertising is so resistant to what seems to all of you (and me) like fairly common sense ideas. Make good games targeted at anyone/everyone? What do you think is at stake for them in maintaining very rigidly defined ways of packaging games and consoles?
lunaria42: I wonder if there any gamers who still don't know Samus is a woman.
Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: As much as I see women as our equals HAVING A JANE 117 IS UNACCEPTABLE
Badazz: they are still gettting a grip on this unisex platform
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: why.
[MeeF] CyAn: I thought good games were targeted at everyone?
≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: LOL @ lunaria
Badazz: basically the net is UNISEX
shoopuf: They're afraid to take a risk. With everything costing so much these days and development schedules being so long, they make what's 'safe', and market it that way too
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: Cyanste: sorry, but most companies target males. It sounds horrible but its true
lunaria42: I think game companies still fill like their target and only demographic is males ages 12 to 27.
shoopuf: it's why there are also so many darn sequels
Kash: I don't really care what the console looks like, I just need good games and a decent interface
lunaria42: Those are the gamers they care about.
Badazz: how do you market to someone that isnt female or male, but rather is a gmaer and wants to see what else you can make happen on the net on my Monitor
☭ wMute ☭: The concept of "good games" is based on perception. "good" games aren't universal. A great game might be boring to someone.
shoopuf: Also, it's very common for companies to totally ban women from their focus groups
{J1}: ...
[MeeF] CyAn: How are ads targeted at those age groups? Just wondering
{J1}: i am so against that
janey: A lot of decent games seem to be ONLY targetted at males... even though they could appeal to a female audience as well
Celeste: I think I'm a bit lost on that question... but it could be because it keeps bumping up... lol
≈§ØĎ≈ Jack the Ripper: Yea the color of a console could be pink with polka dots and as long as it ran I would use it....
Nodgene: Male dominated developers - that's why. Very few women are in development, and until you get more women gamers there won't be more female developers... and in a market saturated with male-ideal games... it's a bigger risk to try to make a game that is better for, or aimed exclusively at women... especially since so little effort has been invested in female gamer psychological profiling and market research, given that it is still a minority.
Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: 85.68% of games are targeted at males ....thats just the way it is
Celeste: To bad I couldnt bring into this discussion same sex online marriages :P
[Xfire-TTHS] Pause: 87.1905% of statistics are made up on the spot monk.
[NBK]Raccoon: lol
{J1}: well the male mind i guess just likes the violent
Monk- Bom Chick Wah Wah: </